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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: HashtagAlty on November 20, 2017, 08:33:41 PM

Title: AGM this evening...
Post by: HashtagAlty on November 20, 2017, 08:33:41 PM
Any updates or revelations ?
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: B. 4D on November 20, 2017, 11:26:14 PM
The AGM was done in 13 minutes.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: andrewflynn on November 21, 2017, 07:49:05 AM
Why the low turnout and short duration?
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: HashtagAlty on November 21, 2017, 07:55:48 AM
The AGM was done in 13 minutes.

That's an utter shambles
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: Matt Taylor on November 21, 2017, 08:30:08 AM
Only 16 shareholders turned up so was relatively straight forward affair. Summary, and a few of my own thoughts, below. Apologies for inaccuracies/misunderstandings - I’m suffering with a cold and was preoccupied by trying to contain my coughing fits at the back of the room through most of it.

Appointments
Derek Wilshaw re-elected as a director, by a majority vote from those present, for another three years.
Bill Waterson was voted onto the board unanimously, for three years. This was the first AGM since Bill joined the board, and so had to be approved officially.

Accounts
Club made a £25k loss last season. Normally I would much prefer we got relegated making a loss than went down while turning in a profit, so I don’t want to sound too critical. But (and it’s a big but...) in the case of last season, I dread to think what/who it was spent on? We were relegated by Xmas!
To make a £25k loss over the season, while averaging in excess of 1,100 home crowds and winning a few cup games, to assemble the worst squad we have ever put together scares the living daylights out of me for a number of reasons.
But, as I said, I get annoyed enough when we’ve been relegated while celebrating a £6k profit, so I can’t moan too much if we really did throw the kitchen sink at it financially and still went down.

Football Club sale
Grahame Rowley revealed that he has had meetings with three interested parties since the EGM, two of which have not been heard from since.
I personally think that’s a relatively decent level of interest given that the publicity around the available shares has been zero since June, and we have The Sport Business (anyone remember them...?) filtering the interested parties in the first instance.
One of these parties, the same one the board announced they had signed the NDA with, has submitted a bid for the football club.
However, this was not accompanied with the level of detail required by the board, and the club are now waiting for this to be returned. Understandably they weren’t able to go into further detail.


Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: B. 4D on November 21, 2017, 08:56:29 AM
Don't get me wrong Matt, but a point of clarification .

Football Club For Sale.
This was Q&A  question after the AGM.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: Mrs Warbouys on November 21, 2017, 09:04:50 AM
I thought we were going to get regular updates on the sale of the shares? This cant just quietly be dropped because we are winning a few football matches. All supporters want the team to do well, and want them and the management team to be successful, even those that only choose to watch us away from home and those that cannot bring themselves to attend at present.The two must not be confused, that’s unfair on the manager and the team, and on those supporters.  But as a football club we must as a priority embrace advancement. With Trafford council jumping in to bed with Salford City FC now is the time to push the club on. We keep being told that the rowley family have to do everything at the club. For which I’m sure everyone is greatful, but with more people involved in the club they might not have to.

What more detail is needed from this interested party? Who is in discussion with them? Whilst I appreciate the NDA, are we confident this will Come to fruition? Will the party involved feel too many hurdles are being put infront of them and look elsewhere leaving us to rue so an opportunity much like Welling United with the now owners of Ebbsfleet United from Kuwait?

We’ve long been an incestuous institution, terrified of new people, but let’s not f**k around. If we do not embrace change and advancement we will sink to be a non entity very quickly
 
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: Matt Taylor on November 21, 2017, 09:16:18 AM
Don't get me wrong Matt, but a point of clarification .

Football Club For Sale.
This was Q&A  question after the AGM.

Yes, sorry my mistake. This was dealt with after the AGM had officially closed as the AGM only covers club business up to May 2017.

Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: GB Alty on November 21, 2017, 10:13:04 AM
Don't get me wrong Matt, but a point of clarification .

Football Club For Sale.
This was Q&A  question after the AGM.

Yes, sorry my mistake. This was dealt with after the AGM had officially closed as the AGM only covers club business up to May 2017.


Matt was Rowley voted in for another 3 years?

Incidentally did you feel Rowley is serious about selling the club?

Can anyone tell me how we have allowed someone with 4% shares in the club to have so much power? To be the king maker? It's a scandal and a scandal we all allowed it to happen
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: Matt Taylor on November 21, 2017, 11:07:48 AM
Don't get me wrong Matt, but a point of clarification .

Football Club For Sale.
This was Q&A  question after the AGM.

Yes, sorry my mistake. This was dealt with after the AGM had officially closed as the AGM only covers club business up to May 2017.


Matt was Rowley voted in for another 3 years?

Incidentally did you feel Rowley is serious about selling the club?

Can anyone tell me how we have allowed someone with 4% shares in the club to have so much power? To be the king maker? It's a scandal and a scandal we all allowed it to happen

Grahame Rowley was re-elected to the board at the 2016 AGM and not up for election last night.


Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: beaker141 on November 21, 2017, 02:17:56 PM


Can anyone tell me how we have allowed someone with 4% shares in the club to have so much power? To be the king maker? It's a scandal and a scandal we all allowed it to happen

We're back to that confusion between ownership and control.

Shareholders own the club.

The board of directors control and manage the club.

The shareholders elect the board of directors.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: Ashley Alty on November 21, 2017, 06:23:07 PM
https://fanengagement.blogspot.co.uk
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: GB Alty on November 21, 2017, 07:04:25 PM


Can anyone tell me how we have allowed someone with 4% shares in the club to have so much power? To be the king maker? It's a scandal and a scandal we all allowed it to happen

We're back to that confusion between ownership and control.

Shareholders own the club.

The board of directors control and manage the club.

The shareholders elect the board of directors.
no confusion I never mentioned ownership, I said power which is control - I guess that was my point about 4% and power
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: beaker141 on November 22, 2017, 09:03:25 AM


Can anyone tell me how we have allowed someone with 4% shares in the club to have so much power? To be the king maker? It's a scandal and a scandal we all allowed it to happen

We're back to that confusion between ownership and control.

Shareholders own the club.

The board of directors control and manage the club.

The shareholders elect the board of directors.
no confusion I never mentioned ownership, I said power which is control - I guess that was my point about 4% and power

You did - thats what 4% means - you own 4% of Altrincham Football Club.

My point is you could have no shares at all and still be a director with control.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: HashtagAlty on November 22, 2017, 09:29:55 AM


Can anyone tell me how we have allowed someone with 4% shares in the club to have so much power? To be the king maker? It's a scandal and a scandal we all allowed it to happen

We're back to that confusion between ownership and control.

Shareholders own the club.

The board of directors control and manage the club.

The shareholders elect the board of directors.
no confusion I never mentioned ownership, I said power which is control - I guess that was my point about 4% and power

You did - thats what 4% means - you own 4% of Altrincham Football Club.

My point is you could have no shares at all and still be a director with control.

Our shareholders and directors have allowed some with 4% to have far more power and control than they really should given how much he own.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: Jezza on November 22, 2017, 10:04:09 AM
Rowley out
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: beaker141 on November 22, 2017, 10:27:00 AM


Can anyone tell me how we have allowed someone with 4% shares in the club to have so much power? To be the king maker? It's a scandal and a scandal we all allowed it to happen

We're back to that confusion between ownership and control.

Shareholders own the club.

The board of directors control and manage the club.

The shareholders elect the board of directors.
no confusion I never mentioned ownership, I said power which is control - I guess that was my point about 4% and power

You did - thats what 4% means - you own 4% of Altrincham Football Club.

My point is you could have no shares at all and still be a director with control.

Our shareholders and directors have allowed some with 4% to have far more power and control than they really should given how much he own.

Its irrelevant how many shares a director owns in this discussion.

The shareholders - whoever they may be, elect the board of directors to run the club in their best interests. Thats where shareholder involvement ends.

At the AGM 16 shareholders turned up and supported the current board by re-electing Derek and electing Bill.

The board of directors then run the club/business together as they see fit - I've not seen the internal constitution of the board rules but I assume within a board meeting the directors have an equal say and vote in any decisions, possibly a casting vote from the chairman if there is a tie.

You may disagree with the shareholders appointment of directors - but that is their choice as they own the club.

You may disagree with the directors running of the club - but again it is their remit to run the club as best they see fit and make many decisions each year to do so.


Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: HashtagAlty on November 22, 2017, 11:04:52 AM


Can anyone tell me how we have allowed someone with 4% shares in the club to have so much power? To be the king maker? It's a scandal and a scandal we all allowed it to happen

We're back to that confusion between ownership and control.

Shareholders own the club.

The board of directors control and manage the club.

The shareholders elect the board of directors.
no confusion I never mentioned ownership, I said power which is control - I guess that was my point about 4% and power

You did - thats what 4% means - you own 4% of Altrincham Football Club.

My point is you could have no shares at all and still be a director with control.

Our shareholders and directors have allowed some with 4% to have far more power and control than they really should given how much he own.

Its irrelevant how many shares a director owns in this discussion.

The shareholders - whoever they may be, elect the board of directors to run the club in their best interests. Thats where shareholder involvement ends.

At the AGM 16 shareholders turned up and supported the current board by re-electing Derek and electing Bill.

The board of directors then run the club/business together as they see fit - I've not seen the internal constitution of the board rules but I assume within a board meeting the directors have an equal say and vote in any decisions, possibly a casting vote from the chairman if there is a tie.

You may disagree with the shareholder's appointment of directors - but that is their choice as they own the club.

You may disagree with the directors running of the club - but again it is their remit to run the club as best they see fit and make many decisions each year to do so.


Of course, it's relevant. Without Shareholders making him a director, he could not be chairman.

Point 1. The shareholders elect a man with just 4% to the board of directors. This is done because of his Simon Richman attitude to being a director and an easy choice.
Point 2.  As the shareholders have yet to elect anyone other than Grahame who wants his job, they have essentially given him the control of the club (By appointing him head of the people "whose remit to run the club as best they see fit").

He owns run 4% but given the position, he has carved himself into (the club wouldn't run without him, they cry, his influence and therefore control is far greater than the 4% which he owns.



Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: beaker141 on November 22, 2017, 11:17:29 AM


Its irrelevant how many shares a director owns in this discussion.

The shareholders - whoever they may be, elect the board of directors to run the club in their best interests. Thats where shareholder involvement ends.

At the AGM 16 shareholders turned up and supported the current board by re-electing Derek and electing Bill.

The board of directors then run the club/business together as they see fit - I've not seen the internal constitution of the board rules but I assume within a board meeting the directors have an equal say and vote in any decisions, possibly a casting vote from the chairman if there is a tie.

You may disagree with the shareholder's appointment of directors - but that is their choice as they own the club.

You may disagree with the directors running of the club - but again it is their remit to run the club as best they see fit and make many decisions each year to do so.


Of course, it's relevant. Without Shareholders making him a director, he could not be chairman.

Point 1. The shareholders elect a man with just 4% to the board of directors. This is done because of his Simon Richman attitude to being a director and an easy choice.
Point 2.  As the shareholders have yet to elect anyone other than Grahame who wants his job, they have essentially given him the control of the club (By appointing him head of the people "whose remit to run the club as best they see fit").

He owns run 4% but given the position, he has carved himself into (the club wouldn't run without him, they cry, his influence and therefore control is far greater than the 4% which he owns.



Its still not relevant. Shareholders every day elect directors, chairman etc who have 0% of the company - you dont need to own a company to run it - I could own 100% of Alty and elect whoever I like to run - its the shareholders free choice.

You state again " therefore control is far greater than the 4% which he owns" so the confusion continues - ownership is nothing to do with control. You cant have shareholders involved in decisions on day to day running or nothing would ever get done.



 
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: PukkaPieman on November 22, 2017, 11:46:36 AM
The simple conclusion to draw from this is that at present the clubs shareholders dont want GR out or even if they do dont see an alternative.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: HashtagAlty on November 22, 2017, 11:51:20 AM


Its irrelevant how many shares a director owns in this discussion.

The shareholders - whoever they may be, elect the board of directors to run the club in their best interests. Thats where shareholder involvement ends.

At the AGM 16 shareholders turned up and supported the current board by re-electing Derek and electing Bill.

The board of directors then run the club/business together as they see fit - I've not seen the internal constitution of the board rules but I assume within a board meeting the directors have an equal say and vote in any decisions, possibly a casting vote from the chairman if there is a tie.

You may disagree with the shareholder's appointment of directors - but that is their choice as they own the club.

You may disagree with the directors running of the club - but again it is their remit to run the club as best they see fit and make many decisions each year to do so.


Of course, it's relevant. Without Shareholders making him a director, he could not be chairman.

Point 1. The shareholders elect a man with just 4% to the board of directors. This is done because of his Simon Richman attitude to being a director and an easy choice.
Point 2.  As the shareholders have yet to elect anyone other than Grahame who wants his job, they have essentially given him the control of the club (By appointing him head of the people "whose remit to run the club as best they see fit").

He owns run 4% but given the position, he has carved himself into (the club wouldn't run without him, they cry, his influence and therefore control is far greater than the 4% which he owns.



Its still not relevant. Shareholders every day elect directors, chairman etc who have 0% of the company - you dont need to own a company to run it - I could own 100% of Alty and elect whoever I like to run - its the shareholders free choice.

You state again " therefore control is far greater than the 4% which he owns" so the confusion continues - ownership is nothing to do with control. You cant have shareholders involved in decisions on day to day running or nothing would ever get done.



 

If you owned 100% then you would have control.

There are other parties with around 4% who have less control, due to their influence, than Grahame does.

Grahame control in day to day affairs outstrips someone who owns less than 1/20th of the business.

Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: Teasierbeaver on November 22, 2017, 12:17:16 PM


Its irrelevant how many shares a director owns in this discussion.

The shareholders - whoever they may be, elect the board of directors to run the club in their best interests. Thats where shareholder involvement ends.

At the AGM 16 shareholders turned up and supported the current board by re-electing Derek and electing Bill.

The board of directors then run the club/business together as they see fit - I've not seen the internal constitution of the board rules but I assume within a board meeting the directors have an equal say and vote in any decisions, possibly a casting vote from the chairman if there is a tie.

You may disagree with the shareholder's appointment of directors - but that is their choice as they own the club.

You may disagree with the directors running of the club - but again it is their remit to run the club as best they see fit and make many decisions each year to do so.


Of course, it's relevant. Without Shareholders making him a director, he could not be chairman.

Point 1. The shareholders elect a man with just 4% to the board of directors. This is done because of his Simon Richman attitude to being a director and an easy choice.
Point 2.  As the shareholders have yet to elect anyone other than Grahame who wants his job, they have essentially given him the control of the club (By appointing him head of the people "whose remit to run the club as best they see fit").

He owns run 4% but given the position, he has carved himself into (the club wouldn't run without him, they cry, his influence and therefore control is far greater than the 4% which he owns.



Its still not relevant. Shareholders every day elect directors, chairman etc who have 0% of the company - you dont need to own a company to run it - I could own 100% of Alty and elect whoever I like to run - its the shareholders free choice.

You state again " therefore control is far greater than the 4% which he owns" so the confusion continues - ownership is nothing to do with control. You cant have shareholders involved in decisions on day to day running or nothing would ever get done.



 

If you owned 100% then you would have control.

There are other parties with around 4% who have less control, due to their influence, than Grahame does.

Grahame control in day to day affairs outstrips someone who owns less than 1/20th of the business.



The other shareholders can propose themselves to the board and be voted in. The shareholders could propose you to the board and you then get voted in and then you would have more power than the 'owners'.

The chairman has not done anything underhand in assuming his control of the club he is fulfilling a role asked of him.

The issue is he isnt very good at it as far as most of us are concerned

There is not a significant enough shareholding or consensus on the board that agrees with that and so his leadership is not being challenged.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: Jezza on November 22, 2017, 12:34:04 PM
The majority shareholders couldnt give a toss who is chairman as long as someone takes on this millstone round the neck burden.

So it has always been about the chairman doing the decent thing and standing down.

Id be amazed if the likes of white rosenfield etc were there last night?..apart from being on an ego trip...
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe on November 22, 2017, 12:39:27 PM

The AGM was done in 13 minutes.



13 unlucky minutes to discuss the club's worst season in the last five decades.

I've listened to the late, great Peter Hennerley ask longer questions than that at fan forums!

Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: Jezza on November 22, 2017, 01:13:59 PM

The AGM was done in 13 minutes.



13 unlucky minutes to discuss the club's worst season in the last five decades.

I've listened to the late, great Peter Hennerley ask longer questions than that at fan forums!



Vividly remember Peter's ramblings and wondering if there was a question looming in our distant future.

With such apathy from the major shareholders for such a long period of time it is almost astounding we have not dropped to this level sooner
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: beaker141 on November 22, 2017, 02:04:14 PM


If you owned 100% then you would have control.



Yes, but I could elect directors to run it and control it day to day on my behalf.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: bighairedmike on November 22, 2017, 02:30:35 PM
I think a lot of the issues here are actually being lost in the talk of control and power.

One of the main points is that Derek Wilshaw was reelected, unopposed, to a very weak board.

This begs the question as to the skill set that is needed to join our board of directors, and why we are not opening out our football clubs board to people with set skills that improve us.

The board is stale and they have no interest in changing things. This is what is mean by power being given to them. Our shareholding is so diluted it means it is difficult for anybody to get a majority shareholding which is a good thing, but it also makes it difficult to change the board. GR stated that you don't have to have money to be on the board, so why are we not advertising for skills?

Altrincham football club is a mates club and the way it is ran is an absolute joke. All the events of the past 2 years have brought that to the fore. Until the chairman does the decent thing and steps aside, the clique will not be broken.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: cheshire cat on November 22, 2017, 03:05:07 PM
Suddenly the question of skills has been brought up. Previously we have been looking for a new owner. I was rather hoping the Queen would decide to buy Philip the football club as an anniversary present and then we'd be able to fly a new flag outside the main stand.

I'm not sure what skills he'd bring to the table though.

Seriously, perhaps the ownership is a distraction and it's the perceived skill shortage that needs addressing.

When does the strategy document achieve its first birthday?
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe on November 22, 2017, 03:11:44 PM


When does the strategy document achieve its first birthday?



The Altrincham FC Strategic Plan was unveiled to the public in a meeting held in the CSH on Sunday, 26th February 2017.
 
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe on November 22, 2017, 03:25:26 PM

The following comes from the reports in The Times of Arsenal's recent AGM. Remind you of anything?


A female shareholder asked (according to her for the sixth consecutive year) about the make-up of the board, given Arsenal chairman Sir Chips Keswick’s contention that “we have a diverse, modern organisation”.

Arsenal’s board is made up of Ivan Gazidis, Ken Friar, Lord Harris of Peckham, Kroenke and his (37-year-old) son Josh as well as Keswick. So that’s all male, all white, average age 65.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: One Foot in the Grave on November 22, 2017, 03:53:02 PM
Sod diversity - I (and many others) just want the club we love to be run responsibly, and for the benefit of all concerned.

Any arguments about the chairmanship on this thread are totally irrelevant. GR wasn't up for re-election, and won't be until 2019. We have to grin and bear it until then (the grin is optional) because he ain't going nowhere. And quite frankly I expect him to still be there in 2022, 2025, 2028 and so on.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: Jezza on November 22, 2017, 04:00:21 PM
I find it really sad that because Rowley refuses to step down people like Derek get dragged in for a bit of criticism.....

really does keep a toxic air around the club yet Rowley is quoted on the main site as saying "the atmosphere was now positive. Grahame thanked the attendees and spectators for their patience during last season's troubled times. "
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: Matt Taylor on November 22, 2017, 05:36:52 PM


Can anyone tell me how we have allowed someone with 4% shares in the club to have so much power? To be the king maker? It's a scandal and a scandal we all allowed it to happen

We're back to that confusion between ownership and control.

Shareholders own the club.

The board of directors control and manage the club.

The shareholders elect the board of directors.
no confusion I never mentioned ownership, I said power which is control - I guess that was my point about 4% and power

You did - thats what 4% means - you own 4% of Altrincham Football Club.

My point is you could have no shares at all and still be a director with control.

Our shareholders and directors have allowed some with 4% to have far more power and control than they really should given how much he own.

Its irrelevant how many shares a director owns in this discussion.

The shareholders - whoever they may be, elect the board of directors to run the club in their best interests. Thats where shareholder involvement ends.

At the AGM 16 shareholders turned up and supported the current board by re-electing Derek and electing Bill.

The board of directors then run the club/business together as they see fit - I've not seen the internal constitution of the board rules but I assume within a board meeting the directors have an equal say and vote in any decisions, possibly a casting vote from the chairman if there is a tie.

You may disagree with the shareholders appointment of directors - but that is their choice as they own the club.

You may disagree with the directors running of the club - but again it is their remit to run the club as best they see fit and make many decisions each year to do so.




And here lies the issue.

There were over 250 shareholders eligible to attend this years AGM. Only 16 turned up.
Excluding Grahame Rowley himself, there are currently 26 shareholders (of the 250) who personally hold more than 1,000 shares in the club, collectively owning 73% of the currently allocated shares - without counting the shares currently held by the football club itself.

By my reckoning, of these 26 other shareholders, only Karen Rowley bothered to turn up. Monday night wasn’t an endorsement of the status quo by the owners of the football club, it was a another mass show of f**king apathy from them.

That’s not a criticism of those (nominal) shareholders who were present. Far from it. If they hadn’t have turned up then we wouldn’t have even had an AGM.
And once they do turn up they are perfectly entitled to express their opinion and vote in whichever way they see fit, regardless of whether I or anybody else agrees with them or not.

But the real issue isn’t the shareholders who turned up, or how many shares the current chairman holds. The issue is the amount of dormant shares floating about, and the shameful lack of interest from the current major shareholders.

This can, and will, be resolved by the sale of the recently created controlling interest in the football club. With genuine interest, and a bid already received, hopefully this can be sold as soon as possible to ensure the health and optimism of the football club off the field matches the current positivity on it.

Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: cheshire cat on November 22, 2017, 06:19:40 PM
It really does depend where the interest is coming from though.

For example, sale sharks are looking for a new home. If they have been making enquiries how do you fancy playing second fiddle to a rugby club. I don't think it will be them because they are looking to own their own ground .
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: One Foot in the Grave on November 22, 2017, 07:06:03 PM
It really does depend where the interest is coming from though.

For example, sale sharks are looking for a new home. If they have been making enquiries how do you fancy playing second fiddle to a rugby club. I don't think it will be them because they are looking to own their own ground .

It won't be them because our ground capacity simply isn't adequate to meet their needs.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: Graham Bennetts Perm on November 22, 2017, 07:16:36 PM
As a shareholder, it’s always such a pleasure to receive the invitation to the AGM. It’s a shame really that I never receive anything any more, and find out about the meeting date on this forum retrospectively. I’ve given up trying to get the shareholders’ register updated, and have also given up on Altrincham FC having any kind of successful future.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: distancetraveller on November 22, 2017, 07:19:18 PM
It really does depend where the interest is coming from though.

For example, sale sharks are looking for a new home. If they have been making enquiries how do you fancy playing second fiddle to a rugby club. I don't think it will be them because they are looking to own their own ground .

It won't be them because our ground capacity simply isn't adequate to meet their needs.

Agree about the ground capacity, plus having egg chasers on the pitch would f**k it up good and proper
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: cheshire cat on November 22, 2017, 09:41:42 PM
The speculation on the fans forum was that they would turn the ground through 90 degrees and extend on to the allotments behind the popside!
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: Mick on November 22, 2017, 09:50:27 PM
It really does depend where the interest is coming from though.

For example, sale sharks are looking for a new home. If they have been making enquiries how do you fancy playing second fiddle to a rugby club. I don't think it will be them because they are looking to own their own ground .

It won't be them because our ground capacity simply isn't adequate to meet their needs.

Doubt they could fit all their squad and back-up staff into the dressing room  ;)

Has anyone ever taken a look at their website; about 35 playing staff, backs coach, forwards coach, conditioning coach, boot-lace tying coach........you name it and they have it - all that on crowds of about 5000 in a rented ground..........there must be a heck of a lot of sponsor money involved in full time rugby or money coming in from the leagues

My firm uses the AJ Bell for events and it is a great stadium, albeit you cannot leave for over an hour after a game finishes
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: Timperley The Best on November 22, 2017, 09:57:44 PM
The speculation on the fans forum was that they would turn the ground through 90 degrees and extend on to the allotments behind the popside!



And refer to Altrincham fc as Altrincham Town.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: Atticus on November 22, 2017, 10:26:13 PM
As a shareholder, it’s always such a pleasure to receive the invitation to the AGM. It’s a shame really that I never receive anything any more, and find out about the meeting date on this forum retrospectively. I’ve given up trying to get the shareholders’ register updated, and have also given up on Altrincham FC having any kind of successful future.

In that case will you sell your shares to me?
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: Ballers on November 22, 2017, 10:52:37 PM
It really does depend where the interest is coming from though.

For example, sale sharks are looking for a new home. If they have been making enquiries how do you fancy playing second fiddle to a rugby club. I don't think it will be them because they are looking to own their own ground .

At the risk of distraction on an important thread, and presuming it wasn't a theoretical example, I can assure you 100% that Sale aren't looking to move from the AJ Bell. You can have Internet conjecture if you like but from the horses mouth they ain't looking to move.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: bighairedmike on November 23, 2017, 12:49:18 AM
It really does depend where the interest is coming from though.

For example, sale sharks are looking for a new home. If they have been making enquiries how do you fancy playing second fiddle to a rugby club. I don't think it will be them because they are looking to own their own ground .

At the risk of distraction on an important thread, and presuming it wasn't a theoretical example, I can assure you 100% that Sale aren't looking to move from the AJ Bell. You can have Internet conjecture if you like but from the horses mouth they ain't looking to move.

Discussed this rumour with one of the financial guys (and close friend of Simon Orange) on a flight back from Dublin in October. I was also guaranteed that a move away was not being looked at.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: Graham Bennetts Perm on November 23, 2017, 06:55:54 AM
In that case will you sell your shares to me?
[/quote]

Possibly, but I’ll be deciding on the fate of my shares when I see how fragmented the currently “available” 51% stake becomes.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: bighairedmike on November 23, 2017, 07:55:08 AM
I find it really sad that because Rowley refuses to step down people like Derek get dragged in for a bit of criticism.....

really does keep a toxic air around the club yet Rowley is quoted on the main site as saying "the atmosphere was now positive. Grahame thanked the attendees and spectators for their patience during last season's troubled times. "

Grahame Rowley takes the majority of the stick for our situation and rightly so, however the rest of the board can not be held blameless.

It is because of the insular way in which this club has been ran, that our board has lacked any strength, relying solely on the same people.

The club is scared of anything new. New ideas, new skills and new people.

Somebody said it is "now about skills". It has always been about skills. The Chairman has no skills whatsoever when it comes to dealing with other people,or with running a football club well.

My question sill stands, what is the purpose of appointing Derek to the board for another three years? What skill set do all of the board members bring? I think it is blatantly obvious what Mr Waterson brings (and Hashtag Alty has an interesting stat about things that have gone from "ideas" to "production" over the past few months) but it is not so easily seen across the rest of the board. That is the concern, and it is GR that should be held responsible for that, as he has allowed it to happen by not being proactive.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: Bob on November 23, 2017, 08:06:39 AM
Companies House shows 2 people have been added to the board in the 7 years that GR has been chairman. Is it any wonder things have gone stale?

Agree with all the stuff about insularity and the fear of change, outsiders and the new. In fairness, this mindset has been around long before we had the current chairman. 
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: Mrs Warbouys on November 23, 2017, 08:53:58 AM
Companies House shows 2 people have been added to the board in the 7 years that GR has been chairman. Is it any wonder things have gone stale?

Agree with all the stuff about insularity and the fear of change, outsiders and the new. In fairness, this mindset has been around long before we had the current chairman. 

Quite right bob, not for a minute insinuating the inward looking nature of the football club is a new phenomena.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: One Foot in the Grave on November 23, 2017, 11:48:09 AM
Companies House shows 2 people have been added to the board in the 7 years that GR has been chairman. Is it any wonder things have gone stale?

Agree with all the stuff about insularity and the fear of change, outsiders and the new. In fairness, this mindset has been around long before we had the current chairman. 

Quite right bob, not for a minute insinuating the inward looking nature of the football club is a new phenomena.

Agreed Pete, but we got away with it for some years. It has undoubtedly become a more serious problem ever since Sinnot quit and "headless chicken syndrome" kicked in. Sadly, I've become resigned to never seeing many of the hopes I've held for over 60 years come to fruition.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: HashtagAlty on November 23, 2017, 12:13:58 PM
I find it really sad that because Rowley refuses to step down people like Derek get dragged in for a bit of criticism.....

really does keep a toxic air around the club yet Rowley is quoted on the main site as saying "the atmosphere was now positive. Grahame thanked the attendees and spectators for their patience during last season's troubled times. "

Grahame Rowley takes the majority of the stick for our situation and rightly so, however the rest of the board can not be held blameless.

It is because of the insular way in which this club has been ran, that our board has lacked any strength, relying solely on the same people.

The club is scared of anything new. New ideas, new skills and new people.

Somebody said it is "now about skills". It has always been about skills. The Chairman has no skills whatsoever when it comes to dealing with other people,or with running a football club well.

My question sill stands, what is the purpose of appointing Derek to the board for another three years? What skill set do all of the board members bring? I think it is blatantly obvious what Mr Waterson brings (and Hashtag Alty has an interesting stat about things that have gone from "ideas" to "production" over the past few months) but it is not so easily seen across the rest of the board. That is the concern, and it is GR that should be held responsible for that, as he has allowed it to happen by not being proactive.

And that stat is that of THIRTEEN ideas properly discussed (ie. feasible with the resources, budget and time we have and clear action plan set out) with Mr Waterson (and Rob) SEVEN have been successfully implemented or will be successfully implemented. One was vetoed by a certain board member, 3 done by other clubs, and two are in the pipleline

Actioned/Being actioned since July.




Ideas not done


An additional 3 ideas were implemented by other clubs/businesses, and one was voet'd by the club, two are in the pipeline.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: Teasierbeaver on November 23, 2017, 01:30:15 PM
I find it really sad that because Rowley refuses to step down people like Derek get dragged in for a bit of criticism.....

really does keep a toxic air around the club yet Rowley is quoted on the main site as saying "the atmosphere was now positive. Grahame thanked the attendees and spectators for their patience during last season's troubled times. "

Grahame Rowley takes the majority of the stick for our situation and rightly so, however the rest of the board can not be held blameless.

It is because of the insular way in which this club has been ran, that our board has lacked any strength, relying solely on the same people.

The club is scared of anything new. New ideas, new skills and new people.

Somebody said it is "now about skills". It has always been about skills. The Chairman has no skills whatsoever when it comes to dealing with other people,or with running a football club well.

My question sill stands, what is the purpose of appointing Derek to the board for another three years? What skill set do all of the board members bring? I think it is blatantly obvious what Mr Waterson brings (and Hashtag Alty has an interesting stat about things that have gone from "ideas" to "production" over the past few months) but it is not so easily seen across the rest of the board. That is the concern, and it is GR that should be held responsible for that, as he has allowed it to happen by not being proactive.

And that stat is that of THIRTEEN ideas properly discussed (ie. feasible with the resources, budget and time we have and clear action plan set out) with Mr Waterson (and Rob) SEVEN have been successfully implemented or will be successfully implemented. One was vetoed by a certain board member, 3 done by other clubs, and two are in the pipleline

Actioned/Being actioned since July.

  • Launching a Spotify alongside a musical partner
  • WhatsApp
  • Football Manager Manager

  • Our own Fantasy Football game
  • Downloadable Calandar
  • Webesite update
  • Crowdfunding


Ideas not done

  • Metrolink Fixture list - Metrolink wouldnt do it unfortunately

An additional 3 ideas were implemented by other clubs/businesses, and one was voet'd by the club, two are in the pipeline.


Very impressive.

I think for some other board members the fact you dedicate your time as a volunteer and being a huge fan seems to be enough.

Whilst it should be rewarded I do think what we really need is someone who is a bit more disruptive and willing to look at a new vision for the club. There's very little that distinguishes us from any other non-league club in the north west and given the local competition we need to do better.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: HashtagAlty on November 23, 2017, 01:39:16 PM
I find it really sad that because Rowley refuses to step down people like Derek get dragged in for a bit of criticism.....

really does keep a toxic air around the club yet Rowley is quoted on the main site as saying "the atmosphere was now positive. Grahame thanked the attendees and spectators for their patience during last season's troubled times. "

Grahame Rowley takes the majority of the stick for our situation and rightly so, however the rest of the board can not be held blameless.

It is because of the insular way in which this club has been ran, that our board has lacked any strength, relying solely on the same people.

The club is scared of anything new. New ideas, new skills and new people.

Somebody said it is "now about skills". It has always been about skills. The Chairman has no skills whatsoever when it comes to dealing with other people,or with running a football club well.

My question sill stands, what is the purpose of appointing Derek to the board for another three years? What skill set do all of the board members bring? I think it is blatantly obvious what Mr Waterson brings (and Hashtag Alty has an interesting stat about things that have gone from "ideas" to "production" over the past few months) but it is not so easily seen across the rest of the board. That is the concern, and it is GR that should be held responsible for that, as he has allowed it to happen by not being proactive.

And that stat is that of THIRTEEN ideas properly discussed (ie. feasible with the resources, budget and time we have and clear action plan set out) with Mr Waterson (and Rob) SEVEN have been successfully implemented or will be successfully implemented. One was vetoed by a certain board member, 3 done by other clubs, and two are in the pipleline

Actioned/Being actioned since July.

  • Launching a Spotify alongside a musical partner
  • WhatsApp
  • Football Manager Manager

  • Our own Fantasy Football game
  • Downloadable Calandar
  • Webesite update
  • Crowdfunding


Ideas not done

  • Metrolink Fixture list - Metrolink wouldnt do it unfortunately

An additional 3 ideas were implemented by other clubs/businesses, and one was voet'd by the club, two are in the pipeline.


Very impressive.

I think for some other board members the fact you dedicate your time as a volunteer and being a huge fan seems to be enough.

Whilst it should be rewarded I do think what we really need is someone who is a bit more disruptive and willing to look at a new vision for the club. There's very little that distinguishes us from any other non-league club in the north west and given the local competition we need to do better.


I could not agree more.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: cheshire cat on November 23, 2017, 05:44:13 PM
It really does depend where the interest is coming from though.

For example, sale sharks are looking for a new home. If they have been making enquiries how do you fancy playing second fiddle to a rugby club. I don't think it will be them because they are looking to own their own ground .

At the risk of distraction on an important thread, and presuming it wasn't a theoretical example, I can assure you 100% that Sale aren't looking to move from the AJ Bell. You can have Internet conjecture if you like but from the horses mouth they ain't looking to move.

It wasn't a theoretical example. Simon Orange told the fan's forum face to face on Monday night that they'd looked at five places to move to. Man City was the only one they had discounted. No indication was given as to what the others are. It's definitely the case that they want to own rather than rent a facility. The A.J.Bell is a total nightmare to get to but they are stuck with it for the time being.

Realistically Moss Lane is too small for their development needs. It could have worked at Edgeley Park but the previous owner seriously upset the County fans.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: Atticus on November 23, 2017, 08:48:25 PM
In that case will you sell your shares to me?

Possibly, but I’ll be deciding on the fate of my shares when I see how fragmented the currently “available” 51% stake becomes.
[/quote]

Ok, thanks. I’ll take that as a possibly, then. I would think the 51% will go to one purchaser. Hope so anyhow. Any more fragmentation will just make it more unwieldy and unmanageable. Please think of me when/if you decide to sell, my request is genuine.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: beaker141 on November 23, 2017, 09:37:31 PM

Ok, thanks. I’ll take that as a possibly, then. I would think the 51% will go to one purchaser. Hope so anyhow. Any more fragmentation will just make it more unwieldy and unmanageable. Please think of me when/if you decide to sell, my request is genuine.

Atticus - I believe there are still shares available to purchase outside of the 51% from the club if you'd like to purchase.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: AFC SLO on November 23, 2017, 10:33:37 PM

Ok, thanks. I’ll take that as a possibly, then. I would think the 51% will go to one purchaser. Hope so anyhow. Any more fragmentation will just make it more unwieldy and unmanageable. Please think of me when/if you decide to sell, my request is genuine.

Atticus - I believe there are still shares available to purchase outside of the 51% from the club if you'd like to purchase.

This is indeed correct, and I believe money will go straight to the football club as opposed to a private entity, therefore benefitting the team, as Bill waterson wrote in his programme notes that money's in will be reinvested into the planned overspend on playing budget.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: Atticus on November 24, 2017, 11:37:01 AM
Thank you, beaker and AFC. I will endeavour to contact the company secretary, in that case.
Title: Re: AGM this evening...
Post by: HashtagAlty on November 24, 2017, 02:16:03 PM
Thank you, beaker and AFC. I will endeavour to contact the company secretary, in that case.

If this is true, we should have been making to most of Black Friday to shift them as christmas presents.

Or be pushing them going forward as excellent xmas presents.