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General Category => Altrincham FC First Team => Topic started by: T.C on April 15, 2018, 08:21:03 AM



Title: winning this league
Post by: T.C on April 15, 2018, 08:21:03 AM
i feel a lot of fans feel it is almost beneath us to crow about winning this league, yet not many clubs nose dive like we did and immediately upturn without levelling out first. though not quite there yet , i think its a great achievement and have enjoyed our football and am really looking forward to next season already. the management team and players deserve a lot of credit and the great atmosphere we had a while back is slowly returning and with away support increasing next year should be good. ONWARDS AND UPWARDS 


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: RockyRobin on April 15, 2018, 08:48:52 AM
If we were talking about the Conference North I would agree.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: One Foot in the Grave on April 15, 2018, 08:53:04 AM
Whilst taking nothing away from the manner in which we've gone about kick starting our revival, I'm certainly not "crowing" about winning this league  (which we will do) since that was our minimum target this season.

I'll start beating my drum if we continue to progress in a similar manner in National North.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Cider Alty on April 15, 2018, 09:25:43 AM
The crowd yesterday was surprisingly low. I thought the game had all the atmosphere of pre-season friendly apart from the odd ten minutes.

Something needs to change. We need every single Alty fan pulling behind the club. No one person is bigger than the club.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Toff Apple on April 15, 2018, 09:34:16 AM
The crowd yesterday was fine and despite agreeing that its a terrible position we are in I for one will be enjoying the celebrations if we manage to do it.  Balls to "well we shouldnt have been there", we are and we've done a bloody great job getting out of it.  Well done all


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: oneedham on April 15, 2018, 09:56:05 AM
This season has been a success. It is becoming tiring with comments ' we shouldn't be here' bla bla, we all agree with this but the fact is we are and I have enjoyed watching us play decent football for the first time in years. I just feel this management and team deserve our full support.
We are still 3 or 4 players off challenging for playoffs next season, assuming we go up but that is a huge improvement from the previous season when we had players who really struggled to actually pass the ball. Aswell as decent players we have fighters in this team which I've not seen for years and years. Sinnott did well with us but we still had a bunch of fairies under him.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Andrew Flynn on April 15, 2018, 10:00:39 AM
I can only speak for myself like, but even though winning this league was my minimum expectancy it doesnít make me any less inclined to celebrate the success (should it happen.)

Iíve not travelled to all these villages across the north of England just to politely applaud and nod once the job is done. A lot of effort has gone into this season and our upturn in form needs to be celebrated.

Not lauded, not heralded as a historic season, just a positive appreciation of us accomplishing the mission.



Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Cider Alty on April 15, 2018, 10:01:07 AM
The crowd yesterday was fine and despite agreeing that its a terrible position we are in I for one will be enjoying the celebrations if we manage to do it.  Balls to "well we shouldnt have been there", we are and we've done a bloody great job getting out of it.  Well done all

880 is not fine. Given how good the weather was, low admission prices etc. I was expecting at least 1000. At a guess I'm pretty sure our average crowd this season is preventing the club to break even on a week to week basis.  



Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Andrew Flynn on April 15, 2018, 10:01:59 AM
The crowd yesterday was fine and despite agreeing that its a terrible position we are in I for one will be enjoying the celebrations if we manage to do it.  Balls to "well we shouldnt have been there", we are and we've done a bloody great job getting out of it.  Well done all

880 is not fine. Given how good the weather was, low admission prices etc. I was expecting at least 1000. At a guess I'm pretty sure our average crowd this season is preventing the club to break even on a week to week basis.  


As many will tell you, there were far more than 880 in attendance yesterday. I donít want to open a can of worms but it looked over 1,000 to us.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Sarf London Alty on April 15, 2018, 10:09:34 AM
I can only speak for myself like, but even though winning this league was my minimum expectancy it doesnít make me any less inclined to celebrate the success (should it happen.)

Iíve not travelled to all these villages across the north of England just to politely applaud and nod once the job is done. A lot of effort has gone into this season and our upturn in form needs to be celebrated.

Not lauded, not heralded as a historic season, just a positive appreciation of us accomplishing the mission.



This sums up my feelings best. Itís been an excellent and triumphant season with a fine management team and a group of players we can once again feel proud of. It doesnít have the same buzz though as the Conference North play off season partly because its looked inevitable for months that weíd go back up but also partly because I do feel we shouldnít have been here in the first place and this season has been more about fighting past wrongs. A bit like when City beat Gillingham in that famous play off final and the Council asked if they wanted a parade and they said no thanks. The real work now starts in August for me.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: One Foot in the Grave on April 15, 2018, 10:10:02 AM
The crowd yesterday was fine and despite agreeing that its a terrible position we are in I for one will be enjoying the celebrations if we manage to do it.  Balls to "well we shouldnt have been there", we are and we've done a bloody great job getting out of it.  Well done all

880 is not fine. Given how good the weather was, low admission prices etc. I was expecting at least 1000. At a guess I'm pretty sure our average crowd this season is preventing the club to break even on a week to week basis.  



As many will tell you, there were far more than 880 in attendance yesterday. I donít want to open a can of worms but it looked over 1,000 to us.

Around 1000 was mooted by the guys I stand with, but I said more like 900. I await  a PROPER figure against Hednesford, aided by the Beer Festival and hopefully the trophy presentation.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Cider Alty on April 15, 2018, 10:14:10 AM
The crowd yesterday was fine and despite agreeing that its a terrible position we are in I for one will be enjoying the celebrations if we manage to do it.  Balls to "well we shouldnt have been there", we are and we've done a bloody great job getting out of it.  Well done all

880 is not fine. Given how good the weather was, low admission prices etc. I was expecting at least 1000. At a guess I'm pretty sure our average crowd this season is preventing the club to break even on a week to week basis.  


As many will tell you, there were far more than 880 in attendance yesterday. I donít want to open a can of worms but it looked over 1,000 to us.

Even a 1000 is not great is it? South Shields had 1500 yesterday. The penultimate sat home game to a championship winning season?


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: The Thriving Jezza on April 15, 2018, 10:30:08 AM
We never won the NPL but we won the unibond which was probably a notch above this level....
While not a massive thing to crow about the achievement of winning a league after succesive relegations and given the fact everyone raises their game against us because we are alty and top is to be applauded and celebrated...massive achievement for pp and the players.
Still a lot of fans missing...great shame...and while i feel more connected to the team i feel very disconnected from the club.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Bob on April 15, 2018, 10:40:13 AM
The crowd yesterday was fine and despite agreeing that its a terrible position we are in I for one will be enjoying the celebrations if we manage to do it.  Balls to "well we shouldnt have been there", we are and we've done a bloody great job getting out of it.  Well done all

880 is not fine. Given how good the weather was, low admission prices etc. I was expecting at least 1000. At a guess I'm pretty sure our average crowd this season is preventing the club to break even on a week to week basis.  


As many will tell you, there were far more than 880 in attendance yesterday. I donít want to open a can of worms but it looked over 1,000 to us.

Even a 1000 is not great is it? South Shields had 1500 yesterday. The penultimate sat home game to a championship winning season?

Different situation though. South Shields are clearly on a roll, heading for two promotions on the bounce, they won the Vase last year and apparently crowds have been boosted by disaffected Sunderland fans. We are recovering from two seasons of disaster and this is our lowest level in living memory. South Shields and Alty are not like for like.

We have the highest crowds in this division and I think they have held up well, all things considered. The big issue remains loyal hardcore fans staying away until we have a new chairman , but then that has nothing to do with Parkinson or how we have performed. Full credit to him and the team for the job (nearly) done. They deserve any celebrations this season.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Andrew Flynn on April 15, 2018, 11:10:39 AM
The crowd yesterday was fine and despite agreeing that its a terrible position we are in I for one will be enjoying the celebrations if we manage to do it.  Balls to "well we shouldnt have been there", we are and we've done a bloody great job getting out of it.  Well done all

880 is not fine. Given how good the weather was, low admission prices etc. I was expecting at least 1000. At a guess I'm pretty sure our average crowd this season is preventing the club to break even on a week to week basis.  


As many will tell you, there were far more than 880 in attendance yesterday. I donít want to open a can of worms but it looked over 1,000 to us.

Even a 1000 is not great is it? South Shields had 1500 yesterday. The penultimate sat home game to a championship winning season?

Different situation though. South Shields are clearly on a roll, heading for two promotions on the bounce, they won the Vase last year and apparently crowds have been boosted by disaffected Sunderland fans. We are recovering from two seasons of disaster and this is our lowest level in living memory. South Shields and Alty are not like for like.

We have the highest crowds in this division and I think they have held up well, all things considered. The big issue remains loyal hardcore fans staying away until we have a new chairman , but then that has nothing to do with Parkinson or how we have performed. Full credit to him and the team for the job (nearly) done. They deserve any celebrations this season.

Beat me to it, South Shields are an anomaly. Our crowds haven't been as bad as I though they would this season. Obviously they'd be bigger and more atmospheric with a unified fan base but for the most part I think, as the above post mentions, they've held up quite well. With or without the stay away fans - I fancy us to average over 1,000 next season which would bring us back to normality in terms of attendances.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: wayno on April 15, 2018, 11:20:40 AM
i feel a lot of fans feel it is almost beneath us to crow about winning this league, yet not many clubs nose dive like we did and immediately upturn without levelling out first. though not quite there yet , i think its a great achievement and have enjoyed our football and am really looking forward to next season already. the management team and players deserve a lot of credit and the great atmosphere we had a while back is slowly returning and with away support increasing next year should be good. ONWARDS AND UPWARDS 
we have won nothing yet . Hence why personally I have not crowed about an event that has yet to happen . I have crowed on many occasions however how amazing Phil and Neil have done

When we are confirmed as champions you won't be able to stop my chirping


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Uncle Globnasty on April 15, 2018, 12:18:34 PM
I can only speak for myself like, but even though winning this league was my minimum expectancy it doesnít make me any less inclined to celebrate the success (should it happen.)

Iíve not travelled to all these villages across the north of England just to politely applaud and nod once the job is done. A lot of effort has gone into this season and our upturn in form needs to be celebrated.

Not lauded, not heralded as a historic season, just a positive appreciation of us accomplishing the mission.

Well said that man.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: markecky2 on April 15, 2018, 08:13:07 PM
The crowd yesterday was surprisingly low. I thought the game had all the atmosphere of pre-season friendly apart from the odd ten minutes.

Something needs to change. We need every single Alty fan pulling behind the club. No one person is bigger than the club.

Did you start many songs to assist the atmosphere?  The game went dead for half an hour in the second half as it was won, the atmosphere struggled a bit at the start whilst they threw everything at us but certainly picked up after 20 mins (see lower down this post)

I'm pretty sure there was a mistake somewhere on the attendance as that did not look like 880 to me, certainly nearer a thousand with 10 away fans.

People are entitled to celebrate how they like and to the degree that they like.  Whilst there is no doubt that winning the league was the expectation and it looks like we will now, I feel that the players and management have done extremely well to keep it going as we have seen on the last few games, teams are very keen to beat us and have nothing lo lose if they gamble and don't achieve it.  

Whilst it may have been the expectation and budgets and crowds say we should do it as we know it doesn't always work like that.

If you support a football team, regardless of your opinions of things off the field, and you aren't pleased when they win matches and a league then you've surely lost your focus?

Two and a half years of depression and poor off the field decisions and PR gaffes have meant we have lost some supporters.  They are slowly being replaced by spectators. If we weren't doing well they would be replaced by no-one.

There is a huge difference between the two.  It takes a long time to turn these people into supporters, get them involved in the atmosphere and start to build a passion and a love for the place.

I hope that we can do that, get supporters back as well and push on together.  There are many clubs that would swop with us right now...


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: wayno on April 15, 2018, 08:33:31 PM
The crowd yesterday was surprisingly low. I thought the game had all the atmosphere of pre-season friendly apart from the odd ten minutes.

Something needs to change. We need every single Alty fan pulling behind the club. No one person is bigger than the club.

Did you start many songs to assist the atmosphere?  The game went dead for half an hour in the second half as it was won, the atmosphere struggled a bit at the start whilst they threw everything at us but certainly picked up after 20 mins (see lower down this post)

I'm pretty sure there was a mistake somewhere on the attendance as that did not look like 880 to me, certainly nearer a thousand with 10 away fans.

People are entitled to celebrate how they like and to the degree that they like.  Whilst there is no doubt that winning the league was the expectation and it looks like we will now, I feel that the players and management have done extremely well to keep it going as we have seen on the last few games, teams are very keen to beat us and have nothing lo lose if they gamble and don't achieve it.  

Whilst it may have been the expectation and budgets and crowds say we should do it as we know it doesn't always work like that.

If you support a football team, regardless of your opinions of things off the field, and you aren't pleased when they win matches and a league then you've surely lost your focus?

Two and a half years of depression and poor off the field decisions and PR gaffes have meant we have lost some supporters.  They are slowly being replaced by spectators. If we weren't doing well they would be replaced by no-one.

There is a huge difference between the two.  It takes a lon. g time to turn these people into supporters, get them involved in the atmosphere and start to build a passion and a love for the place.

I hope that we can do that, get supporters back as well and push on together.  There are many clubs that would swop with us right now...

i thought the home fans really got behind the team again . Like you say lost some fizz for a while due to winning the match with 30 mins spare. Lots of banter and singing well done  


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: PukkaPieman on April 15, 2018, 10:20:54 PM
The crowd yesterday was surprisingly low. I thought the game had all the atmosphere of pre-season friendly apart from the odd ten minutes.

Something needs to change. We need every single Alty fan pulling behind the club. No one person is bigger than the club.

Did you start many songs to assist the atmosphere?  The game went dead for half an hour in the second half as it was won, the atmosphere struggled a bit at the start whilst they threw everything at us but certainly picked up after 20 mins (see lower down this post)

I'm pretty sure there was a mistake somewhere on the attendance as that did not look like 880 to me, certainly nearer a thousand with 10 away fans.

People are entitled to celebrate how they like and to the degree that they like.  Whilst there is no doubt that winning the league was the expectation and it looks like we will now, I feel that the players and management have done extremely well to keep it going as we have seen on the last few games, teams are very keen to beat us and have nothing lo lose if they gamble and don't achieve it.  

Whilst it may have been the expectation and budgets and crowds say we should do it as we know it doesn't always work like that.

If you support a football team, regardless of your opinions of things off the field, and you aren't pleased when they win matches and a league then you've surely lost your focus?

Two and a half years of depression and poor off the field decisions and PR gaffes have meant we have lost some supporters.  They are slowly being replaced by spectators. If we weren't doing well they would be replaced by no-one.

There is a huge difference between the two.  It takes a long time to turn these people into supporters, get them involved in the atmosphere and start to build a passion and a love for the place.

I hope that we can do that, get supporters back as well and push on together.  There are many clubs that would swop with us right now...


+ 10000


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Uncle Globnasty on April 16, 2018, 01:20:08 PM
Did you start many songs to assist the atmosphere?  The game went dead for half an hour in the second half as it was won, the atmosphere struggled a bit at the start whilst they threw everything at us but certainly picked up after 20 mins (see lower down this post)

I'm pretty sure there was a mistake somewhere on the attendance as that did not look like 880 to me, certainly nearer a thousand with 10 away fans.

People are entitled to celebrate how they like and to the degree that they like.  Whilst there is no doubt that winning the league was the expectation and it looks like we will now, I feel that the players and management have done extremely well to keep it going as we have seen on the last few games, teams are very keen to beat us and have nothing lo lose if they gamble and don't achieve it.  

Whilst it may have been the expectation and budgets and crowds say we should do it as we know it doesn't always work like that.

If you support a football team, regardless of your opinions of things off the field, and you aren't pleased when they win matches and a league then you've surely lost your focus?

Two and a half years of depression and poor off the field decisions and PR gaffes have meant we have lost some supporters.  They are slowly being replaced by spectators. If we weren't doing well they would be replaced by no-one.

There is a huge difference between the two.  It takes a long time to turn these people into supporters, get them involved in the atmosphere and start to build a passion and a love for the place.

I hope that we can do that, get supporters back as well and push on together.  There are many clubs that would swop with us right now...

Great post. Couldn't agree more. Yes, we shouldn't have been here in the first place, but being happy that we are getting the results and look like a certainty for promotion is not a bad thing and in no way equates to an acceptance that everything off the field is rosy.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Cider Alty on April 16, 2018, 03:21:07 PM


Did you start many songs to assist the atmosphere?  The game went dead for half an hour in the second half as it was won, the atmosphere struggled a bit at the start whilst they threw everything at us but certainly picked up after 20 mins (see lower down this post)

I'm pretty sure there was a mistake somewhere on the attendance as that did not look like 880 to me, certainly nearer a thousand with 10 away fans.

People are entitled to celebrate how they like and to the degree that they like.  Whilst there is no doubt that winning the league was the expectation and it looks like we will now, I feel that the players and management have done extremely well to keep it going as we have seen on the last few games, teams are very keen to beat us and have nothing lo lose if they gamble and don't achieve it.  

Whilst it may have been the expectation and budgets and crowds say we should do it as we know it doesn't always work like that.

If you support a football team, regardless of your opinions of things off the field, and you aren't pleased when they win matches and a league then you've surely lost your focus?

Two and a half years of depression and poor off the field decisions and PR gaffes have meant we have lost some supporters.  They are slowly being replaced by spectators. If we weren't doing well they would be replaced by no-one.

There is a huge difference between the two.  It takes a long time to turn these people into supporters, get them involved in the atmosphere and start to build a passion and a love for the place.

I hope that we can do that, get supporters back as well and push on together.  There are many clubs that would swop with us right now...


You might be happy with the off-field status quo and you are entitled to hold that view. But don't try and suggest that those who aren't are hoping Alty don't win or something. That simply is not true.

My concerns, that attendances continue to be poor and are resulting in the club living (perhaps more) beyond its means than was planned at the start of the season, are valid.



Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: roytonmike on April 16, 2018, 04:51:01 PM
Did you start many songs to assist the atmosphere?  The game went dead for half an hour in the second half as it was won, the atmosphere struggled a bit at the start whilst they threw everything at us but certainly picked up after 20 mins (see lower down this post)
I'm pretty sure there was a mistake somewhere on the attendance as that did not look like 880 to me, certainly nearer a thousand with 10 away fans.
People are entitled to celebrate how they like and to the degree that they like.  Whilst there is no doubt that winning the league was the expectation and it looks like we will now, I feel that the players and management have done extremely well to keep it going as we have seen on the last few games, teams are very keen to beat us and have nothing lo lose if they gamble and don't achieve it.  
Whilst it may have been the expectation and budgets and crowds say we should do it as we know it doesn't always work like that.
If you support a football team, regardless of your opinions of things off the field, and you aren't pleased when they win matches and a league then you've surely lost your focus?
Two and a half years of depression and poor off the field decisions and PR gaffes have meant we have lost some supporters.  They are slowly being replaced by spectators. If we weren't doing well they would be replaced by no-one.
There is a huge difference between the two.  It takes a long time to turn these people into supporters, get them involved in the atmosphere and start to build a passion and a love for the place.
I hope that we can do that, get supporters back as well and push on together.  There are many clubs that would swop with us right now...

You might be happy with the off-field status quo and you are entitled to hold that view. But don't try and suggest that those who aren't are hoping Alty don't win or something. That simply is not true.
My concerns, that attendances continue to be poor and are resulting in the club living (perhaps more) beyond its means than was planned at the start of the season, are valid.

May I interpose a few rather boring facts?
Average home league gate over the last ten seasons is 1022, not including play-off matches.
Seasonal averages as follows:
2008-9 1081; 2009-10 1095; 2010-1 1038 (all in Conf Nat)
2011-2 827; 2012-3 837; 2013-4 910 (all in Conf North)
2014-5 1246; 2015-6 1270 (Conf Nat)
2016-7 1150 (Conf North)
2017-8 to date 767 (EvoStik Prem)
The figures for 2016-7 are somewhat skewed by the presence of Salford & FCUM among the opposition, so a considerable reduction in average was to be expected in any event. The more interesting comparison is between this season and the three in Conf North from 2011-14. I am perfectly well aware that there are lies, damned lies and statistics but would suggest that the gates this season, which are the highest on average in this league by some distance (Stourbridge, the next best, average just under 700) are not perhaps quite as poor as some may think.
By the by - since our winning leagues happens on average less than once every Preston Guild (which occurs every 20 years, for the uninitiated - we've won five league titles in 115 years) I shall be very happy to celebrate winning this league if & when it happens!


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: JTH on April 16, 2018, 05:09:02 PM
I think it's fair to say the club's gate income will have been seriously hit by two major factors, the reduction in admission prices and the complete lack of opposition supporters. As Mike 's stats illustrate this would've been mitigated a bit by the return of those choosing not to come to home games. If we finish with an average of 750 this year and have a moderate Conf N next I'd be very surprised if we weren't averaging a 1000+ given we'll have FC Utd, York, Southport, and maybe County.

We know from the fan's forum and Shareholders meetings I've attended gate receipts account for about a third of our income. I'd agree with the points Ecky makes that it's the loss of  'supporters over spectators' that's more keenly felt. The sooner we find a way for that to be resolved the better.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: cheshire cat on April 16, 2018, 06:52:29 PM
Great post RoytomMike.

From an income point of view we.ve only recently had the community centre to exploit so that provides an income that wasn't available before. No doubt things are still tight though.

Regarding turning spectators into supporters I think it starts with stability on the pitch. It's not good when you get a completely new set of faces turning up at the start of each season. There will be some comings and goings but really the core needs to be built on and then we can get behind a group of lads we recognise.

Chester are contemplating staying fulltime next season and anticipate crowds of 1300 or so. Hopefully we are living more within our means than they will be.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Toff Apple on April 16, 2018, 07:05:22 PM
If Chester are planning that after giving the manager in the conf next to no money i have no sympathy, it would be extrordinary


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Cider Alty on April 16, 2018, 07:21:45 PM

May I interpose a few rather boring facts?
Average home league gate over the last ten seasons is 1022, not including play-off matches.
Seasonal averages as follows:
2008-9 1081; 2009-10 1095; 2010-1 1038 (all in Conf Nat)
2011-2 827; 2012-3 837; 2013-4 910 (all in Conf North)
2014-5 1246; 2015-6 1270 (Conf Nat)
2016-7 1150 (Conf North)
2017-8 to date 767 (EvoStik Prem)
The figures for 2016-7 are somewhat skewed by the presence of Salford & FCUM among the opposition, so a considerable reduction in average was to be expected in any event. The more interesting comparison is between this season and the three in Conf North from 2011-14. I am perfectly well aware that there are lies, damned lies and statistics but would suggest that the gates this season, which are the highest on average in this league by some distance (Stourbridge, the next best, average just under 700) are not perhaps quite as poor as some may think.
By the by - since our winning leagues happens on average less than once every Preston Guild (which occurs every 20 years, for the uninitiated - we've won five league titles in 115 years) I shall be very happy to celebrate winning this league if & when it happens!

I think your last point undermines your argument that all is well.

This is a championship winning season, you are almost guaranteed a home win, we have slashed our admission prices by 40%, we can drink beer on the terrace, and yet we have the lowest average attendance in the last ten years. This is a Preston guild?

Do you really think we should be proud of the fact that we have the largest attendance in the evostick? Is that how far we've dropped? I can hear the laughter from Macclesfield.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe on April 16, 2018, 07:48:43 PM
Did you start many songs to assist the atmosphere?  The game went dead for half an hour in the second half as it was won, the atmosphere struggled a bit at the start whilst they threw everything at us but certainly picked up after 20 mins (see lower down this post)
I'm pretty sure there was a mistake somewhere on the attendance as that did not look like 880 to me, certainly nearer a thousand with 10 away fans.
People are entitled to celebrate how they like and to the degree that they like.  Whilst there is no doubt that winning the league was the expectation and it looks like we will now, I feel that the players and management have done extremely well to keep it going as we have seen on the last few games, teams are very keen to beat us and have nothing lo lose if they gamble and don't achieve it.  
Whilst it may have been the expectation and budgets and crowds say we should do it as we know it doesn't always work like that.
If you support a football team, regardless of your opinions of things off the field, and you aren't pleased when they win matches and a league then you've surely lost your focus?
Two and a half years of depression and poor off the field decisions and PR gaffes have meant we have lost some supporters.  They are slowly being replaced by spectators. If we weren't doing well they would be replaced by no-one.
There is a huge difference between the two.  It takes a long time to turn these people into supporters, get them involved in the atmosphere and start to build a passion and a love for the place.
I hope that we can do that, get supporters back as well and push on together.  There are many clubs that would swop with us right now...

You might be happy with the off-field status quo and you are entitled to hold that view. But don't try and suggest that those who aren't are hoping Alty don't win or something. That simply is not true.
My concerns, that attendances continue to be poor and are resulting in the club living (perhaps more) beyond its means than was planned at the start of the season, are valid.

May I interpose a few rather boring facts?
Average home league gate over the last ten seasons is 1022, not including play-off matches.
Seasonal averages as follows:
2008-9 1081; 2009-10 1095; 2010-1 1038 (all in Conf Nat)
2011-2 827; 2012-3 837; 2013-4 910 (all in Conf North)
2014-5 1246; 2015-6 1270 (Conf Nat)
2016-7 1150 (Conf North)
2017-8 to date 767 (EvoStik Prem)
The figures for 2016-7 are somewhat skewed by the presence of Salford & FCUM among the opposition, so a considerable reduction in average was to be expected in any event. The more interesting comparison is between this season and the three in Conf North from 2011-14. I am perfectly well aware that there are lies, damned lies and statistics but would suggest that the gates this season, which are the highest on average in this league by some distance (Stourbridge, the next best, average just under 700) are not perhaps quite as poor as some may think.
By the by - since our winning leagues happens on average less than once every Preston Guild (which occurs every 20 years, for the uninitiated - we've won five league titles in 115 years) I shall be very happy to celebrate winning this league if & when it happens!


Mike,

Please feel free to correct my arithmetic if it's gone awry but according to my calculations, for the 12 home fixtures with a 3:00pm kick-off (11 Saturdays and New Year's Day) that we have played to date, the average attendance is 898.

By contrast, the nine home fixtures which have taken place on Tuesday evenings have recorded an average attendance of merely 592.

I think that this illustrates and underlines the disparity between spectators and supporters that Ecky was alluding to in a previous thread on this post.

The 'casual' spectators are all well and good on a Saturday afternoon (particularly with the odd discounted admission fee promotion thrown in) but it's those 'difficult' Tuesday nights when you rely on your core fanbase and as we know this season, that nucleus has been eroded owing to disillusionment with the club's figurehead.

  



Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Bob on April 16, 2018, 08:38:33 PM

May I interpose a few rather boring facts?
Average home league gate over the last ten seasons is 1022, not including play-off matches.
Seasonal averages as follows:
2008-9 1081; 2009-10 1095; 2010-1 1038 (all in Conf Nat)
2011-2 827; 2012-3 837; 2013-4 910 (all in Conf North)
2014-5 1246; 2015-6 1270 (Conf Nat)
2016-7 1150 (Conf North)
2017-8 to date 767 (EvoStik Prem)
The figures for 2016-7 are somewhat skewed by the presence of Salford & FCUM among the opposition, so a considerable reduction in average was to be expected in any event. The more interesting comparison is between this season and the three in Conf North from 2011-14. I am perfectly well aware that there are lies, damned lies and statistics but would suggest that the gates this season, which are the highest on average in this league by some distance (Stourbridge, the next best, average just under 700) are not perhaps quite as poor as some may think.
By the by - since our winning leagues happens on average less than once every Preston Guild (which occurs every 20 years, for the uninitiated - we've won five league titles in 115 years) I shall be very happy to celebrate winning this league if & when it happens!

I think your last point undermines your argument that all is well.

This is a championship winning season, you are almost guaranteed a home win, we have slashed our admission prices by 40%, we can drink beer on the terrace, and yet we have the lowest average attendance in the last ten years. This is a Preston guild?

Do you really think we should be proud of the fact that we have the largest attendance in the evostick? Is that how far we've dropped? I can hear the laughter from Macclesfield.

So on the one hand you are bemoaning that people aren't coming to watch a winning side but then talk about us being at such a low level and how far we've dropped. I'm genuinely confused, it's probably just me though.

I can't see anyone saying all is well, or that they are proud of the crowds. The issue of so many hard-core supporters staying away has been referred to time and time again in this and other threads (and this cannot remain the elephant in the room as far as the board is concerned).

There's been plenty of context and restraint in the praise given. People are giving credit where it's deserved and actually trying to squeeze some sort of long overdue and well earned pleasure and positivity after two seasons of hell. Is that really such a bad thing?


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Friar Tuck on April 16, 2018, 08:41:53 PM
Without the same info, i.e average attendances for Tuesdays vs Saturdays in previous seasons, this doesn't prove anything.

Whilst it probably wasn't a drop off of 33% previously, it may well have been (I don't have the figures, or intend on trawling through the stats to show either way). Taking into consideration the complete lack of away support on a Tuesday, it may actually be a similar change in home fans, as a percentage. When getting 1,200 for Saturday home games, were we getting around 800 for Tuesdays? Someone with a lot more knowledge of Alty than me could clarify, I'm sure.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Cider Alty on April 16, 2018, 09:03:57 PM

May I interpose a few rather boring facts?
Average home league gate over the last ten seasons is 1022, not including play-off matches.
Seasonal averages as follows:
2008-9 1081; 2009-10 1095; 2010-1 1038 (all in Conf Nat)
2011-2 827; 2012-3 837; 2013-4 910 (all in Conf North)
2014-5 1246; 2015-6 1270 (Conf Nat)
2016-7 1150 (Conf North)
2017-8 to date 767 (EvoStik Prem)
The figures for 2016-7 are somewhat skewed by the presence of Salford & FCUM among the opposition, so a considerable reduction in average was to be expected in any event. The more interesting comparison is between this season and the three in Conf North from 2011-14. I am perfectly well aware that there are lies, damned lies and statistics but would suggest that the gates this season, which are the highest on average in this league by some distance (Stourbridge, the next best, average just under 700) are not perhaps quite as poor as some may think.
By the by - since our winning leagues happens on average less than once every Preston Guild (which occurs every 20 years, for the uninitiated - we've won five league titles in 115 years) I shall be very happy to celebrate winning this league if & when it happens!

I think your last point undermines your argument that all is well.

This is a championship winning season, you are almost guaranteed a home win, we have slashed our admission prices by 40%, we can drink beer on the terrace, and yet we have the lowest average attendance in the last ten years. This is a Preston guild?

Do you really think we should be proud of the fact that we have the largest attendance in the evostick? Is that how far we've dropped? I can hear the laughter from Macclesfield.

So on the one hand you are bemoaning that people aren't coming to watch a winning side but then talk about us being at such a low level and how far we've dropped. I'm genuinely confused, it's probably just me though.

I can't see anyone saying all is well, or that they are proud of the crowds. The issue of so many hard-core supporters staying away has been referred to time and time again in this and other threads (and this cannot remain the elephant in the room as far as the board is concerned).

There's been plenty of context and restraint in the praise given. People are giving credit where it's deserved and actually trying to squeeze some sort of long overdue and well earned pleasure and positivity after two seasons of hell. Is that really such a bad thing?
Ok Iíll keep it simple for you.

The loss of our core support is worrying. I want bigger crowds that include all of our core support. The ďf**k themĒ mentality of the board is divisive and bad for the club. The board should be actively trying to get all of our fans back to moss lane.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Nom de plume on April 16, 2018, 09:21:36 PM

May I interpose a few rather boring facts?
Average home league gate over the last ten seasons is 1022, not including play-off matches.
Seasonal averages as follows:
2008-9 1081; 2009-10 1095; 2010-1 1038 (all in Conf Nat)
2011-2 827; 2012-3 837; 2013-4 910 (all in Conf North)
2014-5 1246; 2015-6 1270 (Conf Nat)
2016-7 1150 (Conf North)
2017-8 to date 767 (EvoStik Prem)
The figures for 2016-7 are somewhat skewed by the presence of Salford & FCUM among the opposition, so a considerable reduction in average was to be expected in any event. The more interesting comparison is between this season and the three in Conf North from 2011-14. I am perfectly well aware that there are lies, damned lies and statistics but would suggest that the gates this season, which are the highest on average in this league by some distance (Stourbridge, the next best, average just under 700) are not perhaps quite as poor as some may think.
By the by - since our winning leagues happens on average less than once every Preston Guild (which occurs every 20 years, for the uninitiated - we've won five league titles in 115 years) I shall be very happy to celebrate winning this league if & when it happens!

I think your last point undermines your argument that all is well.

This is a championship winning season, you are almost guaranteed a home win, we have slashed our admission prices by 40%, we can drink beer on the terrace, and yet we have the lowest average attendance in the last ten years. This is a Preston guild?

Do you really think we should be proud of the fact that we have the largest attendance in the evostick? Is that how far we've dropped? I can hear the laughter from Macclesfield.

So on the one hand you are bemoaning that people aren't coming to watch a winning side but then talk about us being at such a low level and how far we've dropped. I'm genuinely confused, it's probably just me though.

I can't see anyone saying all is well, or that they are proud of the crowds. The issue of so many hard-core supporters staying away has been referred to time and time again in this and other threads (and this cannot remain the elephant in the room as far as the board is concerned).

There's been plenty of context and restraint in the praise given. People are giving credit where it's deserved and actually trying to squeeze some sort of long overdue and well earned pleasure and positivity after two seasons of hell. Is that really such a bad thing?
Ok Iíll keep it simple for you.

The loss of our core support is worrying. I want bigger crowds that include all of our core support. The ďf**k themĒ mentality of the board is divisive and bad for the club. The board should be actively trying to get all of our fans back to moss lane.
So how big is this core support loss, being due to the continued presence of Grahame Rowley, as opposed to the fact that we are playing in the Evostik league?


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Bob on April 16, 2018, 09:23:02 PM

May I interpose a few rather boring facts?
Average home league gate over the last ten seasons is 1022, not including play-off matches.
Seasonal averages as follows:
2008-9 1081; 2009-10 1095; 2010-1 1038 (all in Conf Nat)
2011-2 827; 2012-3 837; 2013-4 910 (all in Conf North)
2014-5 1246; 2015-6 1270 (Conf Nat)
2016-7 1150 (Conf North)
2017-8 to date 767 (EvoStik Prem)
The figures for 2016-7 are somewhat skewed by the presence of Salford & FCUM among the opposition, so a considerable reduction in average was to be expected in any event. The more interesting comparison is between this season and the three in Conf North from 2011-14. I am perfectly well aware that there are lies, damned lies and statistics but would suggest that the gates this season, which are the highest on average in this league by some distance (Stourbridge, the next best, average just under 700) are not perhaps quite as poor as some may think.
By the by - since our winning leagues happens on average less than once every Preston Guild (which occurs every 20 years, for the uninitiated - we've won five league titles in 115 years) I shall be very happy to celebrate winning this league if & when it happens!

I think your last point undermines your argument that all is well.

This is a championship winning season, you are almost guaranteed a home win, we have slashed our admission prices by 40%, we can drink beer on the terrace, and yet we have the lowest average attendance in the last ten years. This is a Preston guild?

Do you really think we should be proud of the fact that we have the largest attendance in the evostick? Is that how far we've dropped? I can hear the laughter from Macclesfield.

So on the one hand you are bemoaning that people aren't coming to watch a winning side but then talk about us being at such a low level and how far we've dropped. I'm genuinely confused, it's probably just me though.

I can't see anyone saying all is well, or that they are proud of the crowds. The issue of so many hard-core supporters staying away has been referred to time and time again in this and other threads (and this cannot remain the elephant in the room as far as the board is concerned).

There's been plenty of context and restraint in the praise given. People are giving credit where it's deserved and actually trying to squeeze some sort of long overdue and well earned pleasure and positivity after two seasons of hell. Is that really such a bad thing?
Ok Iíll keep it simple for you.

The loss of our core support is worrying. I want bigger crowds that include all of our core support. The ďf**k themĒ mentality of the board is divisive and bad for the club. The board should be actively trying to get all of our fans back to moss lane.

Totally agree with you on that. Thanks for clarifying.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Friar Tuck on April 16, 2018, 09:33:40 PM

May I interpose a few rather boring facts?
Average home league gate over the last ten seasons is 1022, not including play-off matches.
Seasonal averages as follows:
2008-9 1081; 2009-10 1095; 2010-1 1038 (all in Conf Nat)
2011-2 827; 2012-3 837; 2013-4 910 (all in Conf North)
2014-5 1246; 2015-6 1270 (Conf Nat)
2016-7 1150 (Conf North)
2017-8 to date 767 (EvoStik Prem)
The figures for 2016-7 are somewhat skewed by the presence of Salford & FCUM among the opposition, so a considerable reduction in average was to be expected in any event. The more interesting comparison is between this season and the three in Conf North from 2011-14. I am perfectly well aware that there are lies, damned lies and statistics but would suggest that the gates this season, which are the highest on average in this league by some distance (Stourbridge, the next best, average just under 700) are not perhaps quite as poor as some may think.
By the by - since our winning leagues happens on average less than once every Preston Guild (which occurs every 20 years, for the uninitiated - we've won five league titles in 115 years) I shall be very happy to celebrate winning this league if & when it happens!

I think your last point undermines your argument that all is well.

This is a championship winning season, you are almost guaranteed a home win, we have slashed our admission prices by 40%, we can drink beer on the terrace, and yet we have the lowest average attendance in the last ten years. This is a Preston guild?

Do you really think we should be proud of the fact that we have the largest attendance in the evostick? Is that how far we've dropped? I can hear the laughter from Macclesfield.

So on the one hand you are bemoaning that people aren't coming to watch a winning side but then talk about us being at such a low level and how far we've dropped. I'm genuinely confused, it's probably just me though.

I can't see anyone saying all is well, or that they are proud of the crowds. The issue of so many hard-core supporters staying away has been referred to time and time again in this and other threads (and this cannot remain the elephant in the room as far as the board is concerned).

There's been plenty of context and restraint in the praise given. People are giving credit where it's deserved and actually trying to squeeze some sort of long overdue and well earned pleasure and positivity after two seasons of hell. Is that really such a bad thing?
Ok Iíll keep it simple for you.

The loss of our core support is worrying. I want bigger crowds that include all of our core support. The ďf**k themĒ mentality of the board is divisive and bad for the club. The board should be actively trying to get all of our fans back to moss lane.
So how big is this core support loss, being due to the continued presence of Grahame Rowley, as opposed to the fact that we are playing in the Evostik league?

As far as any "proof" goes, the only thing anyone has to go on is the 29 that left a game early in protest.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: HashtagAlty on April 16, 2018, 09:49:55 PM

May I interpose a few rather boring facts?
Average home league gate over the last ten seasons is 1022, not including play-off matches.
Seasonal averages as follows:
2008-9 1081; 2009-10 1095; 2010-1 1038 (all in Conf Nat)
2011-2 827; 2012-3 837; 2013-4 910 (all in Conf North)
2014-5 1246; 2015-6 1270 (Conf Nat)
2016-7 1150 (Conf North)
2017-8 to date 767 (EvoStik Prem)
The figures for 2016-7 are somewhat skewed by the presence of Salford & FCUM among the opposition, so a considerable reduction in average was to be expected in any event. The more interesting comparison is between this season and the three in Conf North from 2011-14. I am perfectly well aware that there are lies, damned lies and statistics but would suggest that the gates this season, which are the highest on average in this league by some distance (Stourbridge, the next best, average just under 700) are not perhaps quite as poor as some may think.
By the by - since our winning leagues happens on average less than once every Preston Guild (which occurs every 20 years, for the uninitiated - we've won five league titles in 115 years) I shall be very happy to celebrate winning this league if & when it happens!

I think your last point undermines your argument that all is well.

This is a championship winning season, you are almost guaranteed a home win, we have slashed our admission prices by 40%, we can drink beer on the terrace, and yet we have the lowest average attendance in the last ten years. This is a Preston guild?

Do you really think we should be proud of the fact that we have the largest attendance in the evostick? Is that how far we've dropped? I can hear the laughter from Macclesfield.

So on the one hand you are bemoaning that people aren't coming to watch a winning side but then talk about us being at such a low level and how far we've dropped. I'm genuinely confused, it's probably just me though.

I can't see anyone saying all is well, or that they are proud of the crowds. The issue of so many hard-core supporters staying away has been referred to time and time again in this and other threads (and this cannot remain the elephant in the room as far as the board is concerned).

There's been plenty of context and restraint in the praise given. People are giving credit where it's deserved and actually trying to squeeze some sort of long overdue and well earned pleasure and positivity after two seasons of hell. Is that really such a bad thing?
Ok Iíll keep it simple for you.

The loss of our core support is worrying. I want bigger crowds that include all of our core support. The ďf**k themĒ mentality of the board is divisive and bad for the club. The board should be actively trying to get all of our fans back to moss lane.
So how big is this core support loss, being due to the continued presence of Grahame Rowley, as opposed to the fact that we are playing in the Evostik league?

As far as any "proof" goes, the only thing anyone has to go on is the 29 that left a game early in protest.

Well thatís not actually proof, because several go to games still but many who didnít walk out donít gi


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Bath Alty on April 16, 2018, 10:07:55 PM
I am delighted we are winning the league, yes we should be winning this league but we should have had enough about us to stay up last year and that didn't happen.  Hitting a target (especially when it's the best you can do) is grounds for celebration, whatever that target is.  I've only been able to get to a couple of games this season with the increased Northerness of the opposition but I've seen us score more goals in those 2 games (8) than in two seasons of away games south of Birmingham.  That has made a very pleasant change, no matter what league we are in.

It has also meant that Mark Simpsons invariably cheery tone on radio Robins commentary has been a much better match for my mood than in previous seasons!

On the other topic that has inevitably infiltrated this thread like most others, the thing that genuinely confuses me is the comment from those staying away that no man is bigger than the club - usually in the context of criticising GR clinging to power, but then they are staying away because of his continued role as chairman - thus making this one man bigger than their undoubted love for the club.  I really don't understand the logic.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Friar Tuck on April 16, 2018, 10:28:16 PM

May I interpose a few rather boring facts?
Average home league gate over the last ten seasons is 1022, not including play-off matches.
Seasonal averages as follows:
2008-9 1081; 2009-10 1095; 2010-1 1038 (all in Conf Nat)
2011-2 827; 2012-3 837; 2013-4 910 (all in Conf North)
2014-5 1246; 2015-6 1270 (Conf Nat)
2016-7 1150 (Conf North)
2017-8 to date 767 (EvoStik Prem)
The figures for 2016-7 are somewhat skewed by the presence of Salford & FCUM among the opposition, so a considerable reduction in average was to be expected in any event. The more interesting comparison is between this season and the three in Conf North from 2011-14. I am perfectly well aware that there are lies, damned lies and statistics but would suggest that the gates this season, which are the highest on average in this league by some distance (Stourbridge, the next best, average just under 700) are not perhaps quite as poor as some may think.
By the by - since our winning leagues happens on average less than once every Preston Guild (which occurs every 20 years, for the uninitiated - we've won five league titles in 115 years) I shall be very happy to celebrate winning this league if & when it happens!

I think your last point undermines your argument that all is well.

This is a championship winning season, you are almost guaranteed a home win, we have slashed our admission prices by 40%, we can drink beer on the terrace, and yet we have the lowest average attendance in the last ten years. This is a Preston guild?

Do you really think we should be proud of the fact that we have the largest attendance in the evostick? Is that how far we've dropped? I can hear the laughter from Macclesfield.

So on the one hand you are bemoaning that people aren't coming to watch a winning side but then talk about us being at such a low level and how far we've dropped. I'm genuinely confused, it's probably just me though.

I can't see anyone saying all is well, or that they are proud of the crowds. The issue of so many hard-core supporters staying away has been referred to time and time again in this and other threads (and this cannot remain the elephant in the room as far as the board is concerned).

There's been plenty of context and restraint in the praise given. People are giving credit where it's deserved and actually trying to squeeze some sort of long overdue and well earned pleasure and positivity after two seasons of hell. Is that really such a bad thing?
Ok Iíll keep it simple for you.

The loss of our core support is worrying. I want bigger crowds that include all of our core support. The ďf**k themĒ mentality of the board is divisive and bad for the club. The board should be actively trying to get all of our fans back to moss lane.
So how big is this core support loss, being due to the continued presence of Grahame Rowley, as opposed to the fact that we are playing in the Evostik league?

As far as any "proof" goes, the only thing anyone has to go on is the 29 that left a game early in protest.

Well thatís not actually proof, because several go to games still but many who didnít walk out donít gi

I know it's not proof but it is the only visual that can be given an actual, accurate, figure.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: im not really here on April 16, 2018, 10:35:30 PM
That's ridiculous, some people still go that want GR out and some people don't go that want him out. Likewise vice-versa, the only real knowledge is that he's currently a hindrance more than a help and if he really cared he would step down.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Snork Maiden on April 17, 2018, 08:26:49 AM

May I interpose a few rather boring facts?
Average home league gate over the last ten seasons is 1022, not including play-off matches.
Seasonal averages as follows:
2008-9 1081; 2009-10 1095; 2010-1 1038 (all in Conf Nat)
2011-2 827; 2012-3 837; 2013-4 910 (all in Conf North)
2014-5 1246; 2015-6 1270 (Conf Nat)
2016-7 1150 (Conf North)
2017-8 to date 767 (EvoStik Prem)
The figures for 2016-7 are somewhat skewed by the presence of Salford & FCUM among the opposition, so a considerable reduction in average was to be expected in any event. The more interesting comparison is between this season and the three in Conf North from 2011-14. I am perfectly well aware that there are lies, damned lies and statistics but would suggest that the gates this season, which are the highest on average in this league by some distance (Stourbridge, the next best, average just under 700) are not perhaps quite as poor as some may think.
By the by - since our winning leagues happens on average less than once every Preston Guild (which occurs every 20 years, for the uninitiated - we've won five league titles in 115 years) I shall be very happy to celebrate winning this league if & when it happens!

I think your last point undermines your argument that all is well.

This is a championship winning season, you are almost guaranteed a home win, we have slashed our admission prices by 40%, we can drink beer on the terrace, and yet we have the lowest average attendance in the last ten years. This is a Preston guild?

Do you really think we should be proud of the fact that we have the largest attendance in the evostick? Is that how far we've dropped? I can hear the laughter from Macclesfield.

So on the one hand you are bemoaning that people aren't coming to watch a winning side but then talk about us being at such a low level and how far we've dropped. I'm genuinely confused, it's probably just me though.

I can't see anyone saying all is well, or that they are proud of the crowds. The issue of so many hard-core supporters staying away has been referred to time and time again in this and other threads (and this cannot remain the elephant in the room as far as the board is concerned).

There's been plenty of context and restraint in the praise given. People are giving credit where it's deserved and actually trying to squeeze some sort of long overdue and well earned pleasure and positivity after two seasons of hell. Is that really such a bad thing?
Ok Iíll keep it simple for you.

The loss of our core support is worrying. I want bigger crowds that include all of our core support. The ďf**k themĒ mentality of the board is divisive and bad for the club. The board should be actively trying to get all of our fans back to moss lane.
So how big is this core support loss, being due to the continued presence of Grahame Rowley, as opposed to the fact that we are playing in the Evostik league?

Depends how big our core support actually is but I'd estimate between 5% and 10% which is a fair chunk especially as a lot of them are singers.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: anglo alty on April 17, 2018, 12:55:03 PM
Winning any league over a 40 odd game programme is a major achievement when you take into account all the trials and tribulations over a season for this season read bad surfaces and postponements. A team plays in the league its in on merit if that is due to prommotion or regulation and to get out of that league in the right direction should be celebrated because it shows an improvement on what went before. celebrate please then onward and upward


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Andrew Flynn on April 17, 2018, 01:36:26 PM

May I interpose a few rather boring facts?
Average home league gate over the last ten seasons is 1022, not including play-off matches.
Seasonal averages as follows:
2008-9 1081; 2009-10 1095; 2010-1 1038 (all in Conf Nat)
2011-2 827; 2012-3 837; 2013-4 910 (all in Conf North)
2014-5 1246; 2015-6 1270 (Conf Nat)
2016-7 1150 (Conf North)
2017-8 to date 767 (EvoStik Prem)
The figures for 2016-7 are somewhat skewed by the presence of Salford & FCUM among the opposition, so a considerable reduction in average was to be expected in any event. The more interesting comparison is between this season and the three in Conf North from 2011-14. I am perfectly well aware that there are lies, damned lies and statistics but would suggest that the gates this season, which are the highest on average in this league by some distance (Stourbridge, the next best, average just under 700) are not perhaps quite as poor as some may think.
By the by - since our winning leagues happens on average less than once every Preston Guild (which occurs every 20 years, for the uninitiated - we've won five league titles in 115 years) I shall be very happy to celebrate winning this league if & when it happens!

I think your last point undermines your argument that all is well.

This is a championship winning season, you are almost guaranteed a home win, we have slashed our admission prices by 40%, we can drink beer on the terrace, and yet we have the lowest average attendance in the last ten years. This is a Preston guild?

Do you really think we should be proud of the fact that we have the largest attendance in the evostick? Is that how far we've dropped? I can hear the laughter from Macclesfield.

So on the one hand you are bemoaning that people aren't coming to watch a winning side but then talk about us being at such a low level and how far we've dropped. I'm genuinely confused, it's probably just me though.

I can't see anyone saying all is well, or that they are proud of the crowds. The issue of so many hard-core supporters staying away has been referred to time and time again in this and other threads (and this cannot remain the elephant in the room as far as the board is concerned).

There's been plenty of context and restraint in the praise given. People are giving credit where it's deserved and actually trying to squeeze some sort of long overdue and well earned pleasure and positivity after two seasons of hell. Is that really such a bad thing?
Ok Iíll keep it simple for you.

The loss of our core support is worrying. I want bigger crowds that include all of our core support. The ďf**k themĒ mentality of the board is divisive and bad for the club. The board should be actively trying to get all of our fans back to moss lane.
So how big is this core support loss, being due to the continued presence of Grahame Rowley, as opposed to the fact that we are playing in the Evostik league?

Depends how big our core support actually is but I'd estimate between 5% and 10% which is a fair chunk especially as a lot of them are singers.

That's the thing, it's vocal support that we're missing. Slowly being rebuilt (we're certainly in a better place chants than we were at the start of the season) but these voices will always be sorely missed.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Matt Taylor on April 17, 2018, 02:16:19 PM
That's ridiculous, some people still go that want GR out and some people don't go that want him out. Likewise vice-versa, the only real knowledge is that he's currently a hindrance more than a help and if he really cared he would step down.

Spot on. There is a wide spectrum of disillusionment with the club (off the field) among the fan base, and the club trying to file all of these supporters in the ďf*ck themĒ category is severely missing the point.

Some donít go at all any more, some only go to away games, some go home games but refuse to spend in the CSH, or refuse to spend money in the bar either side of the game, or donít buy a programme, or donít support the fundraisers in the same way anymore, some go the games and spend their money but refuse to volunteer for jobs they would otherwise be doing at the club, etc. etc.
Of course there are many others donít give two hoots about who is in charge, or even who we are playing, and just want to watch a game of football on a Saturday. And it would be churlish of anyone to ignore the fact that there are those who still believe the current chairman is the best man to lead us forward.

Trying to quantify the negative impact the current chairman is having on the club is difficult. But what is for sure is that, whatever the rights or wrongs of it, the football club will never reach its full potential while Grahame Rowley remains as chairman. Itís impossible. However good things are, or get (and hereís hoping they get as good as possible!), we will always be short of where we could potentially be if not for one person, and if we had all the groups above rowing in the same direction.

What a shame.



Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Nom de plume on April 17, 2018, 03:04:18 PM
That's ridiculous, some people still go that want GR out and some people don't go that want him out. Likewise vice-versa, the only real knowledge is that he's currently a hindrance more than a help and if he really cared he would step down.

Spot on. There is a wide spectrum of disillusionment with the club (off the field) among the fan base, and the club trying to file all of these supporters in the ďf*ck themĒ category is severely missing the point.

Some donít go at all any more, some only go to away games, some go home games but refuse to spend in the CSH, or refuse to spend money in the bar either side of the game, or donít buy a programme, or donít support the fundraisers in the same way anymore, some go the games and spend their money but refuse to volunteer for jobs they would otherwise be doing at the club, etc. etc.
Of course there are many others donít give two hoots about who is in charge, or even who we are playing, and just want to watch a game of football on a Saturday. And it would be churlish of anyone to ignore the fact that there are those who still believe the current chairman is the best man to lead us forward.

Trying to quantify the negative impact the current chairman is having on the club is difficult. But what is for sure is that, whatever the rights or wrongs of it, the football club will never reach its full potential while Grahame Rowley remains as chairman. Itís impossible. However good things are, or get (and hereís hoping they get as good as possible!), we will always be short of where we could potentially be if not for one person, and if we had all the groups above rowing in the same direction.

What a shame.


Can you quantify ďsomeĒ so we can assess the potential shortfall?
By the way itís been drizzling in Buxton for the last couple of hours.


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: distancetraveller on April 17, 2018, 03:38:12 PM
That's ridiculous, some people still go that want GR out and some people don't go that want him out. Likewise vice-versa, the only real knowledge is that he's currently a hindrance more than a help and if he really cared he would step down.

Spot on. There is a wide spectrum of disillusionment with the club (off the field) among the fan base, and the club trying to file all of these supporters in the ďf*ck themĒ category is severely missing the point.

Some donít go at all any more, some only go to away games, some go home games but refuse to spend in the CSH, or refuse to spend money in the bar either side of the game, or donít buy a programme, or donít support the fundraisers in the same way anymore, some go the games and spend their money but refuse to volunteer for jobs they would otherwise be doing at the club, etc. etc.
Of course there are many others donít give two hoots about who is in charge, or even who we are playing, and just want to watch a game of football on a Saturday. And it would be churlish of anyone to ignore the fact that there are those who still believe the current chairman is the best man to lead us forward.

Trying to quantify the negative impact the current chairman is having on the club is difficult. But what is for sure is that, whatever the rights or wrongs of it, the football club will never reach its full potential while Grahame Rowley remains as chairman. Itís impossible. However good things are, or get (and hereís hoping they get as good as possible!), we will always be short of where we could potentially be if not for one person, and if we had all the groups above rowing in the same direction.

What a shame.


Can you quantify ďsomeĒ so we can assess the potential shortfall?
By the way itís been drizzling in Buxton for the last couple of hours.

I rang Buxton about 10 mins ago. Games on. Parking is on Street


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Uncle Globnasty on April 17, 2018, 04:02:23 PM
Can you quantify ďsomeĒ so we can assess the potential shortfall?
By the way itís been drizzling in Buxton for the last couple of hours.

Therein lies the problem to a certain extent. In fact one of my questions sent in to the board was "Has any attempt been made to quantify the numbers staying away and the effect this may be having on revenue?" It was initially met with silence as nobody wanted to answer the question and eventually waffle that essentially meant "No, nothing been done".

I suspect neither side is keen to quantify for fear of it not appearing the way they want it to appear for their own ends.  Probably not that easy to ascertain anyway for a number of reasons.

So, as it stands it's relatively easy for the club to dismiss as trifling, although I feel that is far from an adequate response and any number staying away should be seen as completely unacceptable. Conversely, it is just as easy for the RO group to portray this as a much more significant number.

In my opinion, the number, whatever it may be, is significant enough for more to be being done by the club.

The statistics that are readily to hand can be easily twisted to suit either sides needs. It appears we have reached an incredibly uneasy status quo, with no significant change on the horizon?


Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: Matt Taylor on April 17, 2018, 04:29:16 PM
That's ridiculous, some people still go that want GR out and some people don't go that want him out. Likewise vice-versa, the only real knowledge is that he's currently a hindrance more than a help and if he really cared he would step down.

Spot on. There is a wide spectrum of disillusionment with the club (off the field) among the fan base, and the club trying to file all of these supporters in the ďf*ck themĒ category is severely missing the point.

Some donít go at all any more, some only go to away games, some go home games but refuse to spend in the CSH, or refuse to spend money in the bar either side of the game, or donít buy a programme, or donít support the fundraisers in the same way anymore, some go the games and spend their money but refuse to volunteer for jobs they would otherwise be doing at the club, etc. etc.
Of course there are many others donít give two hoots about who is in charge, or even who we are playing, and just want to watch a game of football on a Saturday. And it would be churlish of anyone to ignore the fact that there are those who still believe the current chairman is the best man to lead us forward.

Trying to quantify the negative impact the current chairman is having on the club is difficult. But what is for sure is that, whatever the rights or wrongs of it, the football club will never reach its full potential while Grahame Rowley remains as chairman. Itís impossible. However good things are, or get (and hereís hoping they get as good as possible!), we will always be short of where we could potentially be if not for one person, and if we had all the groups above rowing in the same direction.

What a shame.


Can you quantify ďsomeĒ so we can assess the potential shortfall?
By the way itís been drizzling in Buxton for the last couple of hours.

My point wasnít about numbers (the immediate impact is hard to quantify as I said), but around the wide spectrum of opinions that persist within the fanbase, even through the best possible league season we could have had, and the impossibility of us ever reaching our full potential under the current set up. Whatever the rights and wrongs of it all.
But I think we both know you already knew that...

Iíll bring a coat. Thank you.





Title: Re: winning this league
Post by: HashtagAlty on April 18, 2018, 08:51:48 AM
The only sensible option would be for Grahame to step down for his position and test the water. If nobody came back, it's not like he couldn't pick the job again in 6 months.