www.altyfans.co.uk

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36378034?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_match_of_the_day&ns_source=facebook&ns_linkname=sport

This was the ad on the back of the July 1967 article. Did people really fall for this sort of auld guff?

OKay, don't wish to clog up the England thread.

Banbury, this is all coming across as very 'chip-on-the shoulder'? You are the one who started using evocative language on this topic using quotations for a atatement about sectarian bigotry that was only ever ushered by anyone from the FAI in the wildest dreams of upset NI fans.

As I'm sure you are well aware, articles 15-18 of FIFA's regulations govern this issue of nationality and contrary to popular belief in some quarters this actually has nothing to do with the good Friday agreement. The IFA have been aware of the eligibility issue for over a decade and a half now (as far back as 1994) when it was dsicussed in the minutes of a meeting (I can provide links if you wish).

The followaing players have been accused of being 'poached'.....let's take a look at what they themselves have to say (the horses mouth so to speak):

"No disrespect to Northern Ireland, but I would rather be playing for my country.”
 - Shane Duffy.

“It’s the best honour you can get to represent your country; it’s always been a dream of mine to play for Ireland.”
 - Marc Wilson.

"It was unbelievable, you know, making the debut for your country. Everyone from Derry wants to play for Ireland. I grew up supporting Ireland, so it was a natural choice for me.”
- Darron Gibson.

Shane Ferguson, another one about whom the accusation was initially made with Worthington feeding the media frenzy by making a number of negative comments about the young Newcastle player as he hadn't answered his calls. The man had made only a handful of appearances for Newcastle and clearly wanted to focus on getting more games under his belt before even considering senior international football. The reason for not accepting the call-up was perfectly clear and more professionalism was shown from the young lad from Derry than from the former Northern Ireland boss. Recently, Shane has silenced the media by pledging his future to Northern Ireland.

I am sure you are aware of the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) ruling in the case of Daniel Kearns? The IFA not only wanted the Court Of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) to rule in their favour in the case of the young player born in Belfast who wanted to play for the Republic, but also amend the rule completely. They mentioned the term “poaching” in the case itself but there is clearly a failure on the part of the IFA to recognise the true meaning of the term “poaching”. “Poaching” is illegal. In this case it would mean to take players contrary to the international laws that govern football. If the IFA were to stop players from the North from playing for the Republic it would be in direct violation of terms under the Good Friday Agreement. According to the agreement,  all people born in the North of Ireland are entitled to dual citizenship. So, Kearns, irrespective of being born in the North of Ireland and not having a parent or grandparent who were born in the Republic of Ireland, is perfectly entitled to play for the Republic because he holds dual citizenship. This is what was stated by CAS on that particular day.

Players born in Northern Ireland have been lining out for FAI teams under FIFA rules identical in effect to those in place today before the Good Friday Agreement. Ger Crossley, Gerard Doherty, Mark McKeever and Tony Shields, for example, were all born in Northern Ireland and, qualifying via their birthright to Irish nationality, played for FAI teams between 1995 and 1997. It would have been difficult for the FAI to turn them away given they were Irish nationals, after all. Countless others have played for Irish teams between the signing of the Good Friday Agreement and the saga involving Darron Gibson that seemed to implant the issue of player eligibility in the minds of Northern Ireland football supporters.

All this bullsh*t about the FAI engaging in sectarian plundering is complete and utter horse-sh*te and I suspect that you know that in reality Banbury as you strike me as a very reasonable and reasoned sort (as is evidenced by your avatar, a progressive unionist, who shed a very shady past to become truly a shining example of progressive unionism). All this rubbish about driving a wedge between the two communities. Again, there is no evidence for this whatsoever, nor is there any indication that the FAI would be unwilling to accept Northern Ireland-born Protestants into their teams. The FAI calling up Northern Ireland-born Irish nationals is neither deliberately sectarian nor sectarian in effect in that the FAI are simply accommodating the wish of Northern Ireland-born players good enough to play for the Republic of Ireland to realise their ambition. For all the FAI cares, they might as well be Catholic, Protestant or dissenter. The religious make-up of FAI teams just isn’t an issue. Nobody knows what the religious make-up of Irish international teams are because, frankly, nobody cares.

In fact, one could prove such an insulting inference wrong by pointing to the example of Alan Kernaghan. Kernaghan, who was born in England to English-born parents, but of Ulster Protestant descent, received 26 caps for the Republic of Ireland between 1993 and 1996. Kernaghan declared for the FAI after the IFA snubbed his advances due to an agreement they had in place with the other British associations at the time whereby Kernaghan or one of his parents would have had to have been born in Northern Ireland for him to qualify to play for Northern Ireland. As it was, Kernaghan only had Northern Ireland-born grand-parents.

It is true that those born in Northern Ireland who have declared for the FAI have almost exclusively been from a nationalist or Catholic background, but this is not indicative of any sectarianism on the part of the FAI; rather, it is indicative of the socio-cultural reality in Northern Ireland that distinguishes these individuals as the types who will, in contrast to those from a unionist background, naturally and primarily identify as Irish rather than as British or Northern Irish, feel an affiliation to the Republic of Ireland team and, therefore, dream to play for it one day.

As the Derry nobel laureate, Seamus Heaney, once wrote when objecting to his inclusion in a 1982 Penguin book of contemporary British Poetry:

“Don’t be surprised if I demur, for, be advised
 My passport’s green.
 No glass of ours was ever raised
 To toast The Queen.”

This is all down to individual freedom of choice for players with potentially dual nationality. In fact, if you are still convinced in your conspiracy theory I can provide you with several examples of players who have gone the other way having first played for FAI teams. If truth be told, it's only raised its ugly head again because James McClean is seen as such a prospect. The only real green in this argument is one of envy.

The number of the mathmatician. Numeracy gone mad. The devil plays a mean tune on his Alty abacus and the forum counts the cost.

Commentary here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/player/sol/newsid_7540000/newsid_7549700?redirect=7549732.stm&news=1&bbram=1&nbram=1&nbwm=1&bbwm=1

launch in stand alone player

Dear Uncle Globnasty,

Thankyou for your interesting post. To reply to your points...

Fair play for the response Hugh.

I like to think not. And having said that, I think a number of people are responding "emotionally" to a rare good beating and a run where we have (somehow) not scored for a while. I still think 9 games with mostly a new team is too short a time to judge. Let's wait and see if we regularly get beat by genuine bottom half teams (and I heard we were very unlucky to lose at Eastbourne although admittedly lose we did).

You really are missing the point here Hugh, it is NOT just one game against Stevenage and it's not even just this season. We were spineless for much of last season and it was only a handful of games (and a small handful at that) in which there was anything like shown. This is no flash in the pan reaction to one game.

To be fair someone used the word clueless. Fact. As I said, it is also three promotions in a row, and we would not have needed any of them if it was not for the FA's bizarre points deduction. Is this not true? And remember we were struggling against rtelegation from the NPL premier when he started here. Hardly down the pan if we're 21st (after nine games and a tough match) in the division above?

Fair enough, I did say the vast majority. Even out of those who may have used such words I think all would respect what GH has done for the club in the past, but there is NO ROOM for sentiment here. As regards the rest of above.....wtf? How on earth can anyone translate being in a relegation place and then getting a reprieve at the AGM a promotion? Yes, the first points deduction was unwarranted, but even in your most warped imagination you can not say that's the reason we had two subsequent relegation seasons (because that's what they were). Yes, he did fantastically at bringing us out of the NPL, but past success at a lower level is no indicator of success at a higher level with a completely different playing field.

We wouldn't have been relegated if Halifax had not been overspending (probably). After ten games we had 3 points. If we had got 6 points, or nine (which we will hopefully have after ten matches this time) we would have stayed up comfortably. Fact. And I don't look on last season as a relegation either. Halifax deserved to go. 2.5% - what? And after all our work paying off our debt! It frigging crippled me!?

Possibly we wouldn't have been relegated if Halifax had not overspent, but staying up by 3 or even six points (great as that would be) can hardly be described as comfortable in anybody's book. You seem to miss the point here again it is not just about finishing above that line to most people. It is the way that we played for much of last season (and what's looking like more of the same this).

A world of difference between division 3 and pt conference too.

Once again it is about a style (or lack of in our case) of play. Most would agree we have a much improved squad this season....are they being used to the best of their ability? Are they being motivated to go out and put in fighting performances each week?

I was wrong last time (just). Things are better this time (fact). If it can be proven beyond reasonable doubt that a change will improve things then fair enough. Doubt remains. Wait a bit longer.

I feel a U2 moment coming on here...."How long to sing this song"

How are things better exactly Hugh? I just don't see it.  Let's take a closer look at that for a moment if you want to trumpet our start.
We have six points from 9 games this season. Last season at the same stage we had 9 points (from 3 wins).
We've played 3 out of the four promoted sides and only got one point from them. Not to mention the fact we've played two of the promoted sides from the season before. Hardly the cream of the division and the sort of teams we need to be beating if we are to stand any chance in this league. We'd only played two of the new sides at this stage last season.

As for not changing things until it can be proved beyond reasonable doubt that things will improve. Really Hugh? Would that be your philosophy for life? Never change anything, no matter how bad a situation may be, unless you can prove that it is going to make things better? Unless you have fantastic crystals Hugh (and I think you've already proved you don't) it is impossible to accurately predict the future. Once again I refer you to another example (extreme I know, but it should serve the point). If you are diagnosed with a terminal illness and are told by your doctor that there is nothing that can be done and then you hear of a doctor abroad who has developed a new and as yet untested remedy for your condition; do you say "oh no, that's not for me, not unless you can prove without any doubt that it will improve my condition" or do you say "let's give it a go, it may just save my life".

Did anyone else see last night's game between Weymouth and Torquay? I know most will have been down at Moss Lane cheering on the lads, but for some of us there was little option but to support Torquay for the nihgt and wait anxiously for updates from Moss Lane. Torquay were woeful and never looked like scoring. Why is it that the top sides seem to play poorly when playing in front of the cameras against our relegation rivals? Let's hope that we get some joy against these sides at some point. I remember watching Stevenage at Farsley (another 0-0) and thinking the same thing...unfortunately we are unlikely to have the Setanta cameras at Moss Lane again this season to complete the picture.

Oh, bollox, I'm just rambling...disappointed with a draw last night as a win would have made so much difference to our position, but have to pleased with the corner we have turned since New Year....don't want to go down that dark alley again this season. COME ON YOU REDS. Let's get something at the bowl of boredom that is Rushden (never has a ground been so devoid of character).