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AltyTunnelSteward
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« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2011, 01:46:46 PM »

Can anyone clear up this -

With a tacle it or fight it can be refereed to the FA for further sanctions - could this ?

Or is the case of red card , and upto the club to the next stage of discipline?


No mention on kiddys forum surely one of them must have been close to hear it?





The Referee will submit a report to the FA detailing what he saw or heard. There are standard tariffs for various offences (two cautions, DOGSO being one match, Violent Conduct and Insulting or Offensive Words/deeds being usually three matches) However, depending on the report, the FA can then increase the tariff or issue an additional charge. This often happens where racist abuse is involved.
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bumble
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« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2011, 01:49:20 PM »

If the ref reports this, would he simply have his word against smithys or would concrete evidence be needed for future sanctions?

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AltyTunnelSteward
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« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2011, 02:00:43 PM »

It would, as you put it, be the word of the Referee against the word of the player (unless one of the assistants or somebody else heard it)

The player would also be able to bring witnesses to support his version of events (i.e rather than using a racist term he actually used a different word which sounds a bit similar.

I fear that I may regret this question but hey ho!

"Why would the Referee lie? What might he hope to achieve by doing so?

 If it was proven that he had blatantly lied the implications for his career would be less than positive and I'd be surprised if anyone who has worked as hard as the Panel Refs and sacrificed so much to reach that level would jeopardise it all by lying
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bumble
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« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2011, 02:13:05 PM »

No accusing the ref of lying - just if there was another explanation maybe misheard or didn't hear it

Back to carls card - what was said there?

Is saying f off you cheating so an so as bad as a racist comment?
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George Heslops Moustache
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« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2011, 02:18:23 PM »

Yes, apparently so. The word cheat being the key there.
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AltyTunnelSteward
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« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2011, 03:51:35 PM »

Cheat = Red Card simple as!
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SW
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« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2011, 04:17:13 PM »

To me this thread is running away with itself. The only suggestion that there may have been an inappropriate use of words in a racial context came firstly from Aber Alty's text message from a Kiddy fan at 7:18 pm yesterday followed by Dino's suggestion he was near to the incident later on in the evening, later partly retracted. That is, unless I have missed anything elsewhere.

If the inferences were to be true surely there would be a thread about it on the Kiddy message board and probably the Conference Forum too. Last time I checked there wasn't.

Smithy may well have sworn  or said something inappropriate but unless anyone actually heard the words and can say they did hand on heart I think all this speculation is very dangerous indeed.
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Holmes Chapel Alty
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« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2011, 04:22:00 PM »

To me this thread is running away with itself. The only suggestion that there may have been an inappropriate use of words in a racial context came firstly from Aber Alty's text message from a Kiddy fan at 7:18 pm yesterday followed by Dino's suggestion he was near to the incident later on in the evening, later partly retracted. That is, unless I have missed anything elsewhere.

If the inferences were to be true surely there would be a thread about it on the Kiddy message board and probably the Conference Forum too. Last time I checked there wasn't.

Smithy may well have sworn  or said something inappropriate but unless anyone actually heard the words and can say they did hand on heart I think all this speculation is very dangerous indeed.
Exactly my sentiments. If Smithy did not use a racist comment I think things like this will push him to Stockport. The whole thread and subject matter is really annoying me now.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 04:25:10 PM by Jenga » Logged
Narcissist
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« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2011, 10:49:28 PM »

This is awful for the club.

Racism is wrong on all levels in my eyes. We should bin all this talk until There's official word either way.

It could damage an innocent lads career. Or Damage our club if it's true. Some of the stuff related to this that has been posted is shameful and poorly informed.
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wayno
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« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2011, 10:52:49 PM »

This is awful for the club.

Racism is wrong on all levels in my eyes. We should bin all this talk until There's official word either way.

It could damage an innocent lads career. Or Damage our club if it's true. Some of the stuff related to this that has been posted is shameful and poorly informed.

I agree compleley we really do ourselves no favours sometimes
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« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2011, 11:15:36 PM »

Smith has been our best player over the last 2 years, but from what i saw he was guilty today of racial abuse.  i was near the incident, and clearly this is not acceptable.  The club need to clarify this, and indeed if he was sent off for racist remarks, should not play again for this club. He completely lost it last 20mins.


whilst i was nrear the incident  i certainly didnt hear anything.  i was merely commenting on the reaction from Kidderminster fans and some of the players.  Smith is one of our best players and i doubt anything was said.  it does need clearing up

Which is true Dino? You were near it and from what you saw he was guilty of racial abuse or you certainly didnt hear anything.

YOU NEED TO BE VERY CAREFUL IN YOUR COMMENTS ON SUCH A DELICATE SUBJECT. Who are you to call for an investigation when as far as I can see there is no complaint from kiddy?HuhHuhHuh??

There is clearly no story here

People like Dino is just trying to cause trouble because the Kiddy player involved happened to be ethnic

Smithy (and I am not defending it) was wound up becouse the same Kiddy player had only minutes earlier stamped on Shaun Densmores head and escaped unpunished.

So if we thinking of handing out bans then maybe trouble makers like Dino should be top of the list?
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AltyTunnelSteward
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« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2011, 11:18:33 PM »

Smith has been our best player over the last 2 years, but from what i saw he was guilty today of racial abuse.  i was near the incident, and clearly this is not acceptable.  The club need to clarify this, and indeed if he was sent off for racist remarks, should not play again for this club. He completely lost it last 20mins.


whilst i was nrear the incident  i certainly didnt hear anything.  i was merely commenting on the reaction from Kidderminster fans and some of the players.  Smith is one of our best players and i doubt anything was said.  it does need clearing up

Which is true Dino? You were near it and from what you saw he was guilty of racial abuse or you certainly didnt hear anything.

YOU NEED TO BE VERY CAREFUL IN YOUR COMMENTS ON SUCH A DELICATE SUBJECT. Who are you to call for an investigation when as far as I can see there is no complaint from kiddy?HuhHuhHuh??

There is clearly no story here

People like Dino is just trying to cause trouble because the Kiddy player involved happened to be ethnic

Smithy (and I am not defending it) was wound up becouse the same Kiddy player had only minutes earlier stamped on Shaun Densmores head and escaped unpunished.

So if we thinking of handing out bans then maybe trouble makers like Dino should be top of the list?

With respect I'm not sure that this is any more helpful
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Steve from Sale
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« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2011, 11:43:27 PM »

Ecky/Gary

I would suggest the whole thread be deleted, all this should have been left to any FA investigation/sending off, and should not be discussed due to the harm it can do.
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markecky
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« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2011, 12:10:24 AM »

There is often accusations (particularly during heated times) that free speech is not allowed on here.

A supporter has reported on an incident he believes occured at the time.

This incident has been neither confirmed nor denied by the football club.

If we delete this thread, another one will appear asking why it has been deleted and suggesting allsorts of conspiracy theories.

I am sure that a statement will come from the club shortly, either officialy to advise it was true and the action being taken or on here to deny such a thing happened.

At the moment this thread is a discussion on what may have happened and peoples views on racism in football.

Me personally, I don't believe in washing your own (alledgely) dirty linen in public but everyone has a different point of view, its what makes it a forum.
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crianza
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« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2011, 12:49:35 PM »

Kiddy fan here.
Have to say dino that your original posting is somewhat OTT. I was sat close to the incident and i find it very hard to see how you could "hear" what was said in front of our biggest crowd for years.

My take on the incident is that Smith was penalised for a foul on Matt. He voiced his displeasure at Matt and Matt started laughing it off and made gestures to Smith about mouthing off. Mcphee then said something to Smith who then stupidly elbowed Mcphee in the face. Credit to Mcphee who didn't make a meal of it, but it happened right in front of the referee and i believe that is what Smith was, quite rightly, red carded for.

After he was dismissed, Smith was then walking past Matt and head butted him. Again, credit to Matt for not going down, but whether anything was said is open to debate. In my opinion, assumptions are being made here on the basis that three or four Altrincham players were trying to pacify Matt after the incident and again immediately after the game. I don't see how the referee could hear it from where he was, but he did see the head butt incident and could file that in his match report. That could lead to an additional three to five game ban on top of the three for the first incident. Whilst no one can condone CLEAR racial abuse, this incident has too much ifs and buts (if you excuse the pun !) and the fact that no reference has been made to it at Kidderminster suggests it is getting blown out of proportion on here.

With regards to the match itself, i think you can count yourselves unlucky with the first sending off and penalty award. Justice was done in us missing the penalty and a red card it definately wasn't. This incident seemed to unsettle us more in the second half and you can consider yourselves unlucky to have left without a point. Best of luck for the rest of the season, i think the signings of Young and Dobson should help in your battle to stay up. On Saturday's performance, i'm sure there are four worse teams in our league.
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