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+ www.altyfans.co.uk » General Category » Altrincham FC First Team
 Time to hit back at the FA ..
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Author Topic: Time to hit back at the FA ..  (Read 8593 times)

louise1925

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Re: Time to hit back at the FA ..
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2007, 02:17:34 PM »

The chair of the panel, who reduced AFC Wimledon's points reduction said that Altrincham's case was completely different without actually saying how! Aparently, AFC 'held their hands up from the start' and admitted their error, while we changed our lawyer whle the panel were having lunch! I don't really get it either!
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gazwarrington

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Re: Time to hit back at the FA ..
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2007, 07:19:47 PM »

John Moules has replied to my email with a contact at the FA to try.


So wait ...
'held their hands up from the start'
So therefore admitting THEY ARE GUILTY and therfore not having any reason to appeal ?

Surely if we had said "We are guilty" then we could not have appealed ? We argued the decision due to odd cicrumstances JUST LIKE Afc Wimbledon. I personally think that is a very poor excuse and actually creates more questions than answers.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2007, 07:23:00 PM by gazwarrington »
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Altyant

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Re: Time to hit back at the FA ..
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2007, 08:28:52 PM »

John Moules has replied to my email with a contact at the FA to try.


So wait ...
'held their hands up from the start'
So therefore admitting THEY ARE GUILTY and therfore not having any reason to appeal ?

Surely if we had said "We are guilty" then we could not have appealed ? We argued the decision due to odd cicrumstances JUST LIKE Afc Wimbledon. I personally think that is a very poor excuse and actually creates more questions than answers.

Gaz - can you post the addy on here.

Would it be worth someone coing up with a gneric email we could copy and send/sign?
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gazwarrington

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Re: Time to hit back at the FA ..
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2007, 08:30:17 PM »

I need the NLP atrticle scanning \ copied to me at gazwarrington@hotmail.com so as  I can see it for myself and hopefully pick holes in it.
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epsomdon

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Re: Time to hit back at the FA ..
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2007, 09:04:56 PM »

The AFC Wimbledon appeal was based on the fact the punishment did not fit the crime.

As stated we admited all along that the crime had been commited (not getting international clearence for signing someone who was not currently playing).  We accepted all along that the Ryman League were in their right to deduct 18points.  .Once it was realised that a crime had been commited it was rectified inside an hour.

The crime only came to light as after Darlington was booked in a cup game it was flagged up by the FA.  Therefore, going by the Ryman League rules, if he had not been booked until an FA Trophy final at  the end of the  season they would have deducted all the points we had gained with him playing.

As Tony Blair said in the PM questions in Parliment a couple of weeks ago, daft rules that someone ought to change.

What exactly was the Altrincham offence?
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Altysmiffy

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Re: Time to hit back at the FA ..
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2007, 09:18:26 PM »

If anything, Altrincham's circumstances were more mitigating, as we had bought Robinson from an English club.

The FA: Is it sheep? Is it horse? Is it pig?...... Nooooo, it's Bull!
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Jimmy Hill

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Re: Time to hit back at the FA ..
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2007, 10:16:37 PM »

I agree with the sentiments raised in this thread, however for the purposes of clarity the comparison should really be restricted to ourselves and AFC Wimbledon.

Bringing Accrington's treatment into the equation will only muddy the waters as; 1) The FA had nothing to do with the decision and 2) It was a completely different crime.



They fielded two ineligable players. We fielded 1 ineligable player. Same thing

Not really.

The respective decisions were made by different bodies, the decisions were also made in accordance with two different sets of rules.
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WTF why do you need some sort of drug to have a good time at a party ffs

bighairedmike

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Re: Time to hit back at the FA ..
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2007, 10:21:58 PM »

appreciate what youre saying jimmy but shouldnt all rules regarding ineligible players be the same, no matter what league you are in?
yet again its a case of 'one rule for some...'
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Altysmiffy

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Re: Time to hit back at the FA ..
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2007, 10:32:52 PM »

I agree with the sentiments raised in this thread, however for the purposes of clarity the comparison should really be restricted to ourselves and AFC Wimbledon.

Bringing Accrington's treatment into the equation will only muddy the waters as; 1) The FA had nothing to do with the decision and 2) It was a completely different crime.



They fielded two ineligable players. We fielded 1 ineligable player. Same thing

Not really.

The respective decisions were made by different bodies, the decisions were also made in accordance with two different sets of rules.

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression the rules were the same in both leagues: lose every point gained while the ineligible player was playing in the team.
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Jimmy Hill

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Re: Time to hit back at the FA ..
« Reply #39 on: April 01, 2007, 10:36:05 PM »

appreciate what youre saying jimmy but shouldnt all rules regarding ineligible players be the same, no matter what league you are in?
yet again its a case of 'one rule for some...'

Ideally, I suppose so.

The issue is that the rules between leagues are not consistent (yet there is no requirement for them to be so), rather than there being an inconsistency in the way both we and Accrington have been treated.
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WTF why do you need some sort of drug to have a good time at a party ffs

Jimmy Hill

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Re: Time to hit back at the FA ..
« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2007, 10:39:34 PM »

I agree with the sentiments raised in this thread, however for the purposes of clarity the comparison should really be restricted to ourselves and AFC Wimbledon.

Bringing Accrington's treatment into the equation will only muddy the waters as; 1) The FA had nothing to do with the decision and 2) It was a completely different crime.



They fielded two ineligable players. We fielded 1 ineligable player. Same thing

Not really.

The respective decisions were made by different bodies, the decisions were also made in accordance with two different sets of rules.

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression the rules were the same in both leagues: lose every point gained while the ineligible player was playing in the team.

I can't find a copy of the League rules, however it may be possible that mitigating circumstances can be taken into account whereas that wasn't the case for us.
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WTF why do you need some sort of drug to have a good time at a party ffs

Altysmiffy

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Re: Time to hit back at the FA ..
« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2007, 10:43:50 PM »

IF thats the cqase we probable don't have an argument.

There is an argument, however (A BIG ONE) for the FA to make sure the rules are consistent.

I will always believe we have been hard done by, however.
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casper

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Re: Time to hit back at the FA ..
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2007, 03:36:53 AM »

The AFC Wimbledon appeal was based on the fact the punishment did not fit the crime.

As stated we admited all along that the crime had been commited (not getting international clearence for signing someone who was not currently playing).  We accepted all along that the Ryman League were in their right to deduct 18points.  .Once it was realised that a crime had been commited it was rectified inside an hour.

The crime only came to light as after Darlington was booked in a cup game it was flagged up by the FA.  Therefore, going by the Ryman League rules, if he had not been booked until an FA Trophy final at  the end of the  season they would have deducted all the points we had gained with him playing.

As Tony Blair said in the PM questions in Parliment a couple of weeks ago, daft rules that someone ought to change.

What exactly was the Altrincham offence?

Unfortunately, it is an FA rule that despite a player retiring from football his registration would continue to be held with that club. In this case Cardiff have kept the registration, and AFC didn’t apply for ITC when signing the player. Though it is a simple mistake to make, and not helped by Cardiff, despite playing in an English league, having all their paperwork processed by the Wales FA.

The Altrincham offence was signing a player from another conference club, who hadn’t bothered to get international clearance for him (he had played a couple games over in Iceland). Therefore, in error Altrincham didn’t apply for int clearance (as Accrington should have done it). This matter only came to light when the player transferred to play in Australia. The club knew a mistake had taken place, and the conference deducted 18 pts. It was also rumoured that other clubs further helped secure the deduction, as alty were in a relegation flight. Only the financial resources of the grays chairman enabled an appeal over the "excessive points deduction" (very similar to AFC's reason for appeal??, ours was dismissed with no reason for appeal).

Both cases were unfortunate to attract the punishments, as both were simple mistakes that could (and should) have been picked up by both club secretaries. The FA clearly had a chance to amend the rules for the ITC, after altirncham and other decisions, chose not to alter the rules, what Altrincham fans didn’t want was other clubs to be severely affected by this rule. What simply mystifies me is how the FA appeals panel can claim "unusual circumstances" despite the fact that they confirm that the Ryman league DID NOT apply the rules improperly. The decision by the football league, in relation to Accrington is again strange, without seeing a copy of the league rule book, it is hard to comment on what legal reason the league may have adopted to reduce the punishment. Though many alty fans were horrified with the punishment thrown at Altrincham, it WAS in accord with FA rules. So why should one rule apply for one club but another, especially when the crimes are extremely similar (if not basically the same)???

Unfortunately, for some reason the FA have acted this way, despite our and other cases brought last season alone. As i have said earlier, the FA had a chance to edit/re-write/change the ITC rules. They haven’t, the punishment should be the same, it really makes the FA further look like the utter T**ts that they are. If i ran a company like the FA is run, i would be hounded out by shareholders, arrested, imprisoned and banned from running any company.

However the FA will not do anything about this, they will only point to "different circumstances" but won’t explain what these differences are. They will think that this will die down, after all were just a small part-time club – what can we do on our own? I have written to the FA with my observations, but haven’t had a reply (nor have i had a reply concerning last season's debacle). My sympathy is with AFC wimbledon, but as we repeatedly lectured last season “rules are rules”. So why the hell carnt the rule enforcer (the FA) enforce the rules correctly????????????????
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teasybeaver

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Re: Time to hit back at the FA ..
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2007, 08:40:59 AM »

I have an e-mail address for the FA. I have no reason not to post it on here so i will if Gary is ok with it.

Hurry up Gary!

Also if people do use this e-mail, please respect the clubs values and dont send any stupid abuse, it will achieve only to make us look like a bunch of idiots!

What would be nice is some kind of response from the FA that they should have dealt with the cases more consistantly, we deserve that at least.
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Altysmiffy

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Re: Time to hit back at the FA ..
« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2007, 05:48:05 PM »

. If i ran a company like the FA is run, i would be hounded out by shareholders, arrested, imprisoned and banned from running any company.


Or you'd own Northwich Vics!
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+ www.altyfans.co.uk » General Category » Altrincham FC First Team
 Time to hit back at the FA ..