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[MadFrankie]

Anyway, Telford eh.....

[Teasierbeaver]

Great to see the forums having a meltdown again. I was starting to worry a bit. I mean, at one point it was starting to look like we were on the up and all pulling in the same direction.

It's absolutely laughable that the CSH is related to our on pitch antics. We did well the season before and CSH was around and in its most expensive phase. The idea that it actually becoming active could be related is even more laughable. Unless of course that this monstrosity is so big it was blocking Sinnott's view of the pitch because he did seem to stop seeing how we were playing for the last few months.

[bumble]

Jack. How many more times,... yes and the club wrote to them offering to repay them their season tickets I believe.

The internal (interior designed scheme) is WHAT WE COULD AFFORD and has to be multi functional and robust, dont you like the solid hardwood floor, full aircon, low energy lighting and systems, LED lighting and 4 TV screens etc etc ?

How many more times? I've never asked that before?

What I don't like is plain walls. Plenty of pubs with function rooms have small hooks to hold frames. These frames can be added to for specific events but in the remain have images relating to the local area or sports club.

Also given it's a  COMMUNITY hall.. why not decorate it showcasing the local community instead of a hospital waiting room?
Why can we have have art work up? Some nice prints or large photos of our glory days... If it wasn't just a white walled room people might consider drinking there pre match.

[Uncle Globnasty]

Anyway, Telford eh.....

Nice try MF, but that ball has been well and truly booted out of the stadium and now the ball boys have spent so long arguing with the officials that they've forgotten the ball ever existed.

It's community groundhog day gone mad......nurse, nurse, lashings of laudanum please

[Graham Bennetts Perm]

On this Telford business, the supporters trust there will be deciding whether to put what I think is their majority shareholdingin the Club up for sale.  It will be interesting to see, if they do, whether an investor is waiting in the wings.....

[York Alty is back]

On this Telford business, the supporters trust there will be deciding whether to put what I think is their majority shareholdingin the Club up for sale.  It will be interesting to see, if they do, whether an investor is waiting in the wings.....

Get with the scene man, therre's the CSH to ponder. Like wooooooow.

[Matt Taylor]

Its seeing situations like this that put into perspective how well Alty is run, on lower attendances as well.

in what way are we better run? We don't have a pot to piss in and the chairmans always asking the supporters for money

Another typical Negative Jamie comment. I thought you were an accountant, surely you understand living within your income, if you dont you cant be much of one.

Just for the record, the current board removed a 600K deficit and have consistently balanced the books ever since, the club has no debt, no directors loans, an 80 year ground lease and one of the .


most enviable Community set ups in the country
Yet you Jamie just want to sling insults at the very people who have made such a superb job of running the club financially. If you ran the club god knows what state we would be in.

In the past 4-5 seasons we’ve made approx. £100k-ish from selling a player direct to a premier league club, made an £150k-ish in cup/TV money (Burton and Colchester seasons combined), and we now have a new income stream via the CSH, but have alarmingly still managed to make a net cash loss over this period. Within the ‘football club’. You don’t have to have Jamie’s expertise in accountancy to realise that “consistently balanced the books” is stretching it somewhat Pukka. Just for the record.
In fact, given we’ve probably had an extra quarter of a million (supposedly unbudgeted?) pounds come into the club during the current chairman’s tenure, it’s even more baffling that we find ourselves cut adrift in a regional league nevermind that we are making a loss doing it.

And who exactly are all these people crippled with envy at our community set up? Most opposition fans I see visiting Moss Lane every other week are too busy pissing themselves laughing at how sh*t we are on the pitch to worry about 8 people turning out to walking football on a Wednesday evening, or how many Zumba/Herbalife classes the club holds in a week.
I do actually agree with a lot of what else you've said elsewhere, and I accept that you are still a bit giddy that the club asked you to design part of the infrastructure, but a bit of perspective is needed.

[Jimmy]

Its seeing situations like this that put into perspective how well Alty is run, on lower attendances as well.

in what way are we better run? We don't have a pot to piss in and the chairmans always asking the supporters for money

Another typical Negative Jamie comment. I thought you were an accountant, surely you understand living within your income, if you dont you cant be much of one.

Just for the record, the current board removed a 600K deficit and have consistently balanced the books ever since, the club has no debt, no directors loans, an 80 year ground lease and one of the .


most enviable Community set ups in the country
Yet you Jamie just want to sling insults at the very people who have made such a superb job of running the club financially. If you ran the club god knows what state we would be in.

In the past 4-5 seasons we’ve made approx. £100k-ish from selling a player direct to a premier league club, made an £150k-ish in cup/TV money (Burton and Colchester seasons combined), and we now have a new income stream via the CSH, but have alarmingly still managed to make a net cash loss over this period. Within the ‘football club’. You don’t have to have Jamie’s expertise in accountancy to realise that “consistently balanced the books” is stretching it somewhat Pukka. Just for the record.
In fact, given we’ve probably had an extra quarter of a million (supposedly unbudgeted?) pounds come into the club during the current chairman’s tenure, it’s even more baffling that we find ourselves cut adrift in a regional league nevermind that we are making a loss doing it.

And who exactly are all these people crippled with envy at our community set up? Most opposition fans I see visiting Moss Lane every other week are too busy pissing themselves laughing at how sh*t we are on the pitch to worry about 8 people turning out to walking football on a Wednesday evening, or how many Zumba/Herbalife classes the club holds in a week.
I do actually agree with a lot of what else you've said elsewhere, and I accept that you are still a bit giddy that the club asked you to design part of the infrastructure, but a bit of perspective is needed.

superb post

[Mausoleum Alty]

I'll second that Jimmy

[TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe]

Jack. How many more times,... yes and the club wrote to them offering to repay them their season tickets I believe.

The internal (interior designed scheme) is WHAT WE COULD AFFORD and has to be multi functional and robust, dont you like the solid hardwood floor, full aircon, low energy lighting and systems, LED lighting and 4 TV screens etc etc ?

How many more times? I've never asked that before?

What I don't like is plain walls. Plenty of pubs with function rooms have small hooks to hold frames. These frames can be added to for specific events but in the remain have images relating to the local area or sports club.

Also given it's a  COMMUNITY hall.. why not decorate it showcasing the local community instead of a hospital waiting room?
Why can we have have art work up? Some nice prints or large photos of our glory days... If it wasn't just a white walled room people might consider drinking there pre match.

Be careful what you wish for.....or they might restore all those framed photographs of Australian cricketers that used to adorn the walls of the Noel White Suite!

[PukkaPieman]

Jack. How many more times,... yes and the club wrote to them offering to repay them their season tickets I believe.
The internal (interior designed scheme) is WHAT WE COULD AFFORD and has to be multi functional and robust, dont you like the solid hardwood floor, full aircon, low energy lighting and systems, LED lighting and 4 TV screens etc etc ?

How many more times? I've never asked that before?
What I don't like is plain walls. Plenty of pubs with function rooms have small hooks to hold frames. These frames can be added to for specific events but in the remain have images relating to the local area or sports club.
Also given it's a  COMMUNITY hall.. why not decorate it showcasing the local community instead of a hospital waiting room?
Why can we have have art work up? Some nice prints or large photos of our glory days... If it wasn't just a white walled room people might consider drinking there pre match.

You didnt Jack but this has been done to death.

On the walls, I actually agree with you, we even had a large mural/artwork designed and it was planned which was a crowd scene of Alty fans, however, due to the cost of it and the wide range of multiple uses, functions etc, that it was felt that the entrance and corridor areas would best display purely AFC pictures, there are quite a few up already. We cant safely have hooks on walls due to SPORTS activities. I think it will evolve in time.
Why dont you put forward some practical suggestions, I am sure Stacey and Judy would be interested.

[PukkaPieman]

In the past 4-5 seasons we’ve made approx. £100k-ish from selling a player direct to a premier league club, made an £150k-ish in cup/TV money (Burton and Colchester seasons combined), and we now have a new income stream via the CSH, but have alarmingly still managed to make a net cash loss over this period. Within the ‘football club’. You don’t have to have Jamie’s expertise in accountancy to realise that “consistently balanced the books” is stretching it somewhat Pukka. Just for the record.
In fact, given we’ve probably had an extra quarter of a million (supposedly unbudgeted?) pounds come into the club during the current chairman’s tenure, it’s even more baffling that we find ourselves cut adrift in a regional league nevermind that we are making a loss doing it.
And who exactly are all these people crippled with envy at our community set up? Most opposition fans I see visiting Moss Lane every other week are too busy pissing themselves laughing at how sh*t we are on the pitch to worry about 8 people turning out to walking football on a Wednesday evening, or how many Zumba/Herbalife classes the club holds in a week. I do actually agree with a lot of what else you've said elsewhere, and I accept that you are still a bit giddy that the club asked you to design part of the infrastructure, but a bit of perspective is needed.

Matt. Im guessing you probably havent seen the clubs accounts over the last 10 years or so (as a shareholder for 20+ years I have), but the club has not made a loss over this period as you suggest, indeed the club owed 600K before the current regime took over and paid that off. Your assumed figures from player sales and FA cup ties also are incorrect, just see the accounts for those years. Basically, with a very frugal approach and without wasting money at all the club has lived within its means extremely well, there are few National League teams who could survive on our overall income, look at Telford which started this thread off. There are plenty of others who have either gone bust and faded away during this time.

As regards the Community set up, AFC receives grant funding for it and has won several community awards for it, we have something like 45 teams playing regularly which is attracting so many new and young fans and their parents to the club and attendances have grown very encouragingly over the last few years. You mention walking football, 2 of the new players who came support other sides and are now becoming Alty fans and will boost future attendances. That's what engaging with your community does.

I can only agree with you about the recent down side which has come about due to poor decisions by the club's managers, who the club have rightly placed their faith in,..... towards the end LS and then particularly NY and it is HE who you could argue has made us a laughing stock. We all hope that Jim Harvey reverses this recent trend, he seems to have made a decent start.

On your last comment about being giddy,.... as the director who brought the whole ground up to FL standard in the 1990's, have successfully designed and managed many hundreds of sports and leisure buildings round the UK over the last 40 years, including premier league grounds, who owns and runs several large leisure businesses, please believe me when I tell you I have plenty of perspective and experience all of which I have gladly volunteered to support the club that I love, namely AFC.

If you want a chat, my name is Ian and I will be in the CSH  tomorrow, hopefully watching us beat Matlock  

[Matt Taylor]

In the past 4-5 seasons we’ve made approx. £100k-ish from selling a player direct to a premier league club, made an £150k-ish in cup/TV money (Burton and Colchester seasons combined), and we now have a new income stream via the CSH, but have alarmingly still managed to make a net cash loss over this period. Within the ‘football club’. You don’t have to have Jamie’s expertise in accountancy to realise that “consistently balanced the books” is stretching it somewhat Pukka. Just for the record.
In fact, given we’ve probably had an extra quarter of a million (supposedly unbudgeted?) pounds come into the club during the current chairman’s tenure, it’s even more baffling that we find ourselves cut adrift in a regional league nevermind that we are making a loss doing it.
And who exactly are all these people crippled with envy at our community set up? Most opposition fans I see visiting Moss Lane every other week are too busy pissing themselves laughing at how sh*t we are on the pitch to worry about 8 people turning out to walking football on a Wednesday evening, or how many Zumba/Herbalife classes the club holds in a week. I do actually agree with a lot of what else you've said elsewhere, and I accept that you are still a bit giddy that the club asked you to design part of the infrastructure, but a bit of perspective is needed.

Matt. Im guessing you probably havent seen the clubs accounts over the last 10 years or so (as a shareholder for 20+ years I have), but the club has not made a loss over this period as you suggest, indeed the club owed 600K before the current regime took over and paid that off. Your assumed figures from player sales and FA cup ties also are incorrect, just see the accounts for those years. Basically, with a very frugal approach and without wasting money at all the club has lived within its means extremely well, there are few National League teams who could survive on our overall income, look at Telford which started this thread off. There are plenty of others who have either gone bust and faded away during this time.

As regards the Community set up, AFC receives grant funding for it and has won several community awards for it, we have something like 45 teams playing regularly which is attracting so many new and young fans and their parents to the club and attendances have grown very encouragingly over the last few years. You mention walking football, 2 of the new players who came support other sides and are now becoming Alty fans and will boost future attendances. That's what engaging with your community does.

I can only agree with you about the recent down side which has come about due to poor decisions by the club's managers, who the club have rightly placed their faith in,..... towards the end LS and then particularly NY and it is HE who you could argue has made us a laughing stock. We all hope that Jim Harvey reverses this recent trend, he seems to have made a decent start.

On your last comment about being giddy,.... as the director who brought the whole ground up to FL standard in the 1990's, have successfully designed and managed many hundreds of sports and leisure buildings round the UK over the last 40 years, including premier league grounds, who owns and runs several large leisure businesses, please believe me when I tell you I have plenty of perspective and experience all of which I have gladly volunteered to support the club that I love, namely AFC.

If you want a chat, my name is Ian and I will be in the CSH  tomorrow, hopefully watching us beat Matlock  

Hi Ian. Thanks for your kind offer to chat, but I’m straight off tomorrow unfortunately and I can’t stay around. Happy to arrange for another time.
For a start, I wasn’t talking about the last 10 years (and the selling of land and paper profit associated with cancelling historical loans), I was talking about the cash loss of the past 4/5 years under the current chairman of the football club. Apologies if that wasn’t clear.
That loss is a fact. You are wrong. It is in the annual accounts. The club has made a loss over that period and we are losing money.
The chairman said as much at the AGM this year. If you weren’t able to make it, I have reproduced below.
“The accounts show we made a £40k loss last season, following on from a £16k loss the previous season, despite bringing in substantial funds from the transfer of Duncan Watmore to Sunderland.”
“The 2015-16 budget is projected to lose £36k and, as a consequence, the Club’s cash reserves will be down to £38k by the season end, leaving little room to manoeuvre.”
Are you accusing the chairman of lying Ian? Otherwise let’s dispel this myth that we are living within our means and balancing the books.
Admittedly the other figures I was using are slightly ‘back of fag packet’ but perhaps you would be able to help?
In terms of unbudgeted cup money, if we take the Burton year as an example then we made £25k prize money (excluding gate receipts) before we arrived at Burton. We then made £35k for hosting an FA Cup 1st Round Replay on the TV. I make that £60k (ish) before we had taken any share of gate receipts from either Burton game or the earlier rounds. So would you be happy with me rounding that at £65k-£70k all told? I haven’t done the same calculation for the Colchester run last year – but perhaps if you would excuse me rounding the total (as I did) for both at around £150k (ish) for both years?
In terms of player receipts, I admit I am only trying to read between the lines from the club accounts. However if you take the total turnover in the year we sold Watmore (2014 accounts), and exclude the cup/TV money from the year before we sold him (Burton), then you would be left with approx. £100k (give or take) extra unaccounted turnover in that year. Either way, there is a sharp and unaccounted increase and it would be reasonable to assume that this is in some way linked to the sale of a player to a premier league club. Please feel free to correct me if my, admittedly basic, calculations would be incorrect.
So that would be an educated guess of an additional quarter of a million pounds into the club under the current chairman that wasn’t budgeted for – as I said in the post above. The actual figure is almost irrelevant. It is still baffling and alarming that we are in the position we are in given the amount of money that has poured into the club under the current chairman. And we are STILL losing money.
To claim we are “consistently balancing the books” is a total myth Ian.

And I can see why NY is an easy, and worthy, scapegoat but he was manager for 6 games. We have been sh*t football team, and in decline, for 18 months.

[beaker141]

I'm baffled !

I assume within the budget there is a figure for Fa cup income, some years we've done well, others we've thrown it away to Trafford in an early round.

If the additional 250k hadn't been spent, would anyone be either happy with where we are now or probably even lower. It comes back to my comment about subsidy, on our natural income streams in the conf national we are punching above our weight, a bit of luck, a few extra bits of chance income and we can perhaps keep a place in conf national. I'm sure the board would love to balance the books and build up a cash reserve to call on when needed , but it's always needed straight away.

An unlucky year like last year, a lot of key players injured, a conman taking a payoff (Griffith), a manager who is perhaps becoming demotivated etc, and we slip down to conf north.

The books have been balanced - fact- income = expenditure give or take the ultimate 35k loss.  At the  meeting a few weeks back there was criticism for not taking out a loan to keep us in conf national - that wouldn't balance well.

[roytonmike]

I'm baffled !
I assume within the budget there is a figure for Fa cup income, some years we've done well, others we've thrown it away to Trafford in an early round.
If the additional 250k hadn't been spent, would anyone be either happy with where we are now or probably even lower. It comes back to my comment about subsidy, on our natural income streams in the conf national we are punching above our weight, a bit of luck, a few extra bits of chance income and we can perhaps keep a place in conf national. I'm sure the board would love to balance the books and build up a cash reserve to call on when needed , but it's always needed straight away.
An unlucky year like last year, a lot of key players injured, a conman taking a payoff (Griffith), a manager who is perhaps becoming demotivated etc, and we slip down to conf north.
The books have been balanced - fact- income = expenditure give or take the ultimate 35k loss.  At the  meeting a few weeks back there was criticism for not taking out a loan to keep us in conf national - that wouldn't balance well.

I assume that figure is £0; I assume the same for FA Trophy.