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Author Topic: Stay away fans and atmosphere  (Read 7112 times)
altrincham
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« on: March 07, 2018, 11:04:45 AM »

Firstly I have been an Alty fan over 20 years on and off and due to personal commitments not made it to many games the last 2 years, I did make it last week though and was impressed with the team and quality of play, the new bar is very good and drinking on the terraces a nice bonus. I know a lot of internal politics with a large section of the support and the Chairman etc has taken place, is this the result of the main singing group we used to have nearly disappearing?
Seems such a shame the young manager and team done experience our old great atmospheres and especially as they are doing so well. Is this the main reason or have people lost interest or just waiting for a new chairmen?
Thanks to any responses to put me in the loop.
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One Foot in the Grave
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« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2018, 03:34:21 PM »

If we accept that the chairman has a job for life, the majority of the singers won't be back. It's that simple.
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Teasierbeaver
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« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2018, 05:11:09 PM »

Basically no matter how well weíre doing weíre always one decision away from disaster with the current chair. Thatís proven in his track record unfortunately. Whatís worse is that disaster has come in several shapes and forms so you never know whatís coming from PR disasters, fan alienation, fan victimisation, poor recruitment, nepotism and so on.

A lot will come back if we are in top five of the league above this time next year but not all.

I donít think he has a job for life. I do think thereís a lack of genuine challenge to his position though. We all grunt and moan yet none of us have a list of candidates to replace him up our sleeves. And I donít mean investors. Iím talking about someone who is willing to take the job on right now and stand up to put pressure on him and his position.
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Leon
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« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2018, 11:22:22 AM »

Iíve long thought that if we could properly quantify how many fans are staying away and so how much income the club is missing out on, that would put more pressure on GR to stand aside than almost anything. Equally if it turned out there really werenít that many of us, that in itself would be worth knowing. As it is we can only guess at the numbers boycotting or staying away in some form or other.
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JTH
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« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2018, 12:12:50 PM »

Iíve long thought that if we could properly quantify how many fans are staying away and so how much income the club is missing out on, that would put more pressure on GR to stand aside than almost anything. Equally if it turned out there really werenít that many of us, that in itself would be worth knowing. As it is we can only guess at the numbers boycotting or staying away in some form or other.

Always up for a sum. Our current average is 800 with effectively no away fans give or take. Last season it was 1,230 which was higher than the Conf Nat relegation season of 1,150.  On the basis of not using last season (bit unreliable given the fall off in gates after Christmas due to results and some very large away followings) and an average of a 200 away following in the Conf Nat Division, I'd put our natural average at about 900 to 950, meaning we're down about 100-150? Let's split the difference and say 125.

Finances

Gate receipts = 125x10x23 = £28,750
Profit on other Match Day Income per head say £2 125x2x23 = £5,750

Rounding up and not counting any other possible losses (sponsorships etc) let's say that costs us £35,000. Given our income in 2016-7 was £562,379 this equates to a reduction of 6.2%. Given gate income will be lower this year due to both attendances and prices, this shortfall will be magnified anyway and is presumably going to be / is being met through other sources.

 



« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 12:17:51 PM by JTH » Logged
Get That Cooker On
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« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2018, 12:22:29 PM »

The atmosphere has been decent at best, but it averages out at poor and at times it has been woeful.

We're relying on Joe Bloggs from down the road. We're relying on him to make good on his passing interest by visiting us on a free Saturday. This isn't sustainable, is it? The football is going well, and mixed with free tickets and MUFC/MCFC offers we've managed to paper over the cracks by being top of a league and exercising that interest where we can.

But surely there's a huge risk here? Joe Bloggs isn't getting behind Parkinson's boys on a Tuesday when United are on TV, nor is he travelling up to Blyth on a Saturday next season. People like Joe Bloggs won't be there when you need them. I know plenty of people who want to do so, but after years of sniping and belittling I can't blame them for packing it in.

Whether certain people choose to believe it or not, those of us who will be there whatever the weather are a critically endangered species at Altrincham Football Club.
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« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2018, 12:54:06 PM »

Iíve long thought that if we could properly quantify how many fans are staying away and so how much income the club is missing out on, that would put more pressure on GR to stand aside than almost anything. Equally if it turned out there really werenít that many of us, that in itself would be worth knowing. As it is we can only guess at the numbers boycotting or staying away in some form or other.

Always up for a sum. Our current average is 800 with effectively no away fans give or take. Last season it was 1,230 which was higher than the Conf Nat relegation season of 1,150.  On the basis of not using last season (bit unreliable given the fall off in gates after Christmas due to results and some very large away followings) and an average of a 200 away following in the Conf Nat Division, I'd put our natural average at about 900 to 950, meaning we're down about 100-150? Let's split the difference and say 125.

Finances

Gate receipts = 125x10x23 = £28,750
Profit on other Match Day Income per head say £2 125x2x23 = £5,750

Rounding up and not counting any other possible losses (sponsorships etc) let's say that costs us £35,000. Given our income in 2016-7 was £562,379 this equates to a reduction of 6.2%. Given gate income will be lower this year due to both attendances and prices, this shortfall will be magnified anyway and is presumably going to be / is being met through other sources.


All very interesting. Iíd also point towards Andrews point(s) after this regarding Joe Bloggs and his ďlack of habitual engagementĒ. Looking at Tuesday night attendances (which are always low) they seem notoriously lower than previous seasons. I would hazard a guess that the deduction there is more likely closer to the boycotted numbers, as Saturday crowds are normally swelled by casual supporters.

I have no mathematical evidence to back this up as I havenít looked through it all, theyíre just the impressions one gets.
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Leon
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« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2018, 01:09:02 PM »

Iíve long thought that if we could properly quantify how many fans are staying away and so how much income the club is missing out on, that would put more pressure on GR to stand aside than almost anything. Equally if it turned out there really werenít that many of us, that in itself would be worth knowing. As it is we can only guess at the numbers boycotting or staying away in some form or other.

Always up for a sum. Our current average is 800 with effectively no away fans give or take. Last season it was 1,230 which was higher than the Conf Nat relegation season of 1,150.  On the basis of not using last season (bit unreliable given the fall off in gates after Christmas due to results and some very large away followings) and an average of a 200 away following in the Conf Nat Division, I'd put our natural average at about 900 to 950, meaning we're down about 100-150? Let's split the difference and say 125.

Finances

Gate receipts = 125x10x23 = £28,750
Profit on other Match Day Income per head say £2 125x2x23 = £5,750

Rounding up and not counting any other possible losses (sponsorships etc) let's say that costs us £35,000. Given our income in 2016-7 was £562,379 this equates to a reduction of 6.2%. Given gate income will be lower this year due to both attendances and prices, this shortfall will be magnified anyway and is presumably going to be / is being met through other sources.

 





What we don't know if how many of those estimated 125 are staying away for Rowley-related reasons and how many have just fallen away as people do when the team gets relegated.

I would like to see the Rowley Out group or someone else try to draw up a register of protesting/boycotting supporters. Some people clearly wouldn't want to go on such a list and nobody should feel pressured to but it would be a way to demonstrate the strength and extent of the discontent.
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distancetraveller
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« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2018, 01:33:15 PM »

Iíve long thought that if we could properly quantify how many fans are staying away and so how much income the club is missing out on, that would put more pressure on GR to stand aside than almost anything. Equally if it turned out there really werenít that many of us, that in itself would be worth knowing. As it is we can only guess at the numbers boycotting or staying away in some form or other.

Always up for a sum. Our current average is 800 with effectively no away fans give or take. Last season it was 1,230 which was higher than the Conf Nat relegation season of 1,150.  On the basis of not using last season (bit unreliable given the fall off in gates after Christmas due to results and some very large away followings) and an average of a 200 away following in the Conf Nat Division, I'd put our natural average at about 900 to 950, meaning we're down about 100-150? Let's split the difference and say 125.

Finances

Gate receipts = 125x10x23 = £28,750
Profit on other Match Day Income per head say £2 125x2x23 = £5,750

Rounding up and not counting any other possible losses (sponsorships etc) let's say that costs us £35,000. Given our income in 2016-7 was £562,379 this equates to a reduction of 6.2%. Given gate income will be lower this year due to both attendances and prices, this shortfall will be magnified anyway and is presumably going to be / is being met through other sources.

 





What we don't know if how many of those estimated 125 are staying away for Rowley-related reasons and how many have just fallen away as people do when the team gets relegated.

I would like to see the Rowley Out group or someone else try to draw up a register of protesting/boycotting supporters. Some people clearly wouldn't want to go on such a list and nobody should feel pressured to but it would be a way to demonstrate the strength and extent of the discontent.

I have no alternate to replace Rowley. and I go to games on a regular basis including away games when possible..
Having stated that, I support the "Rowley out " people. I  pay my entrance plus a drink etc but I no longer support such things as the Patrons Scheme, golden goals etc.
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Leon
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« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2018, 01:45:06 PM »

Iíve long thought that if we could properly quantify how many fans are staying away and so how much income the club is missing out on, that would put more pressure on GR to stand aside than almost anything. Equally if it turned out there really werenít that many of us, that in itself would be worth knowing. As it is we can only guess at the numbers boycotting or staying away in some form or other.

Always up for a sum. Our current average is 800 with effectively no away fans give or take. Last season it was 1,230 which was higher than the Conf Nat relegation season of 1,150.  On the basis of not using last season (bit unreliable given the fall off in gates after Christmas due to results and some very large away followings) and an average of a 200 away following in the Conf Nat Division, I'd put our natural average at about 900 to 950, meaning we're down about 100-150? Let's split the difference and say 125.

Finances

Gate receipts = 125x10x23 = £28,750
Profit on other Match Day Income per head say £2 125x2x23 = £5,750

Rounding up and not counting any other possible losses (sponsorships etc) let's say that costs us £35,000. Given our income in 2016-7 was £562,379 this equates to a reduction of 6.2%. Given gate income will be lower this year due to both attendances and prices, this shortfall will be magnified anyway and is presumably going to be / is being met through other sources.

 





What we don't know if how many of those estimated 125 are staying away for Rowley-related reasons and how many have just fallen away as people do when the team gets relegated.

I would like to see the Rowley Out group or someone else try to draw up a register of protesting/boycotting supporters. Some people clearly wouldn't want to go on such a list and nobody should feel pressured to but it would be a way to demonstrate the strength and extent of the discontent.

I have no alternate to replace Rowley. and I go to games on a regular basis including away games when possible..
Having stated that, I support the "Rowley out " people. I  pay my entrance plus a drink etc but I no longer support such things as the Patrons Scheme, golden goals etc.


That's an important point - it's not just people not going to matches. I don't go to home games anymore but as an exile that only means the club's losing out on maybe £60 a year that way. But I have also withdrawn for the Patrons and Friends and that's another, what, £110 a year. It all adds up.
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JTH
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« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2018, 01:52:14 PM »

Iíve long thought that if we could properly quantify how many fans are staying away and so how much income the club is missing out on, that would put more pressure on GR to stand aside than almost anything. Equally if it turned out there really werenít that many of us, that in itself would be worth knowing. As it is we can only guess at the numbers boycotting or staying away in some form or other.

Always up for a sum. Our current average is 800 with effectively no away fans give or take. Last season it was 1,230 which was higher than the Conf Nat relegation season of 1,150.  On the basis of not using last season (bit unreliable given the fall off in gates after Christmas due to results and some very large away followings) and an average of a 200 away following in the Conf Nat Division, I'd put our natural average at about 900 to 950, meaning we're down about 100-150? Let's split the difference and say 125.

Finances

Gate receipts = 125x10x23 = £28,750
Profit on other Match Day Income per head say £2 125x2x23 = £5,750

Rounding up and not counting any other possible losses (sponsorships etc) let's say that costs us £35,000. Given our income in 2016-7 was £562,379 this equates to a reduction of 6.2%. Given gate income will be lower this year due to both attendances and prices, this shortfall will be magnified anyway and is presumably going to be / is being met through other sources.


All very interesting. Iíd also point towards Andrews point(s) after this regarding Joe Bloggs and his ďlack of habitual engagementĒ. Looking at Tuesday night attendances (which are always low) they seem notoriously lower than previous seasons. I would hazard a guess that the deduction there is more likely closer to the boycotted numbers, as Saturday crowds are normally swelled by casual supporters.

I have no mathematical evidence to back this up as I havenít looked through it all, theyíre just the impressions one gets.

I think there's definitely something to that. As Barry P pointed out on another thread, a 10% reduction in home attendances is never a good thing, although I think 800 is pretty decent considering all of the factors currently in play. A way needs to be found to get those 100-150 back, we all know the piggy bank has been raided this year, if we do go up it can't be on the basis of a reduced budget.
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Hamish de Bretton-Gordon
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« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2018, 01:58:47 PM »

Thereís a fairly simple solution to getting the majority back immediately, itís killing them to stay away..
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cheshire cat
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« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2018, 03:50:29 PM »

It's not just about gate receipts though. In response to a fall in income the price of pies and drinks have been jacked up. Sky sports subscription is not cheap for a sports club. That has been binned for the season. There have been adjustments made to the staff rosta. It's all part and parcel of balancing the books.

It looks to me that the board are managing the budget at the moment albeit by eating into reserves to some extent.

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Beez
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« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2018, 05:00:11 PM »

It's not just about gate receipts though. In response to a fall in income the price of pies and drinks have been jacked up. Sky sports subscription is not cheap for a sports club. That has been binned for the season. There have been adjustments made to the staff rosta. It's all part and parcel of balancing the books.

It looks to me that the board are managing the budget at the moment albeit by eating into reserves to some extent.



Why would the board of the football club be managing the CSH's expenditure on Sky Sports and similar costs accordingly? Its ran by a seperate company, isn't it? So shouldn't impact on the ballancing of football club finances.
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TheCultOfIanTunnacliffe
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« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2018, 06:21:11 PM »

Iíve long thought that if we could properly quantify how many fans are staying away and so how much income the club is missing out on, that would put more pressure on GR to stand aside than almost anything. Equally if it turned out there really werenít that many of us, that in itself would be worth knowing. As it is we can only guess at the numbers boycotting or staying away in some form or other.

Always up for a sum. Our current average is 800 with effectively no away fans give or take. Last season it was 1,230 which was higher than the Conf Nat relegation season of 1,150.  On the basis of not using last season (bit unreliable given the fall off in gates after Christmas due to results and some very large away followings) and an average of a 200 away following in the Conf Nat Division, I'd put our natural average at about 900 to 950, meaning we're down about 100-150? Let's split the difference and say 125.

Finances

Gate receipts = 125x10x23 = £28,750
Profit on other Match Day Income per head say £2 125x2x23 = £5,750

Rounding up and not counting any other possible losses (sponsorships etc) let's say that costs us £35,000. Given our income in 2016-7 was £562,379 this equates to a reduction of 6.2%. Given gate income will be lower this year due to both attendances and prices, this shortfall will be magnified anyway and is presumably going to be / is being met through other sources.

 





What we don't know if how many of those estimated 125 are staying away for Rowley-related reasons and how many have just fallen away as people do when the team gets relegated.

I would like to see the Rowley Out group or someone else try to draw up a register of protesting/boycotting supporters. Some people clearly wouldn't want to go on such a list and nobody should feel pressured to but it would be a way to demonstrate the strength and extent of the discontent.

I have no alternate to replace Rowley. and I go to games on a regular basis including away games when possible..
Having stated that, I support the "Rowley out " people. I  pay my entrance plus a drink etc but I no longer support such things as the Patrons Scheme, golden goals etc.



That's an important point - it's not just people not going to matches. I don't go to home games anymore but as an exile that only means the club's losing out on maybe £60 a year that way. But I have also withdrawn for the Patrons and Friends and that's another, what, £110 a year. It all adds up.




Exactly.

I know of one long-standing supporter whose absence from the J Davidson Stadium this season owing to the continued presence of Grahame Rowley as chairman has resulted in the club losing out on circa £1,000 of revenue.

Now, if Neil Faulkner (or, indeed any other director for that matter) would like to tell him to "f**k off" to his face, then I'm sure that it could be arranged but it doesn't necessarily strike me as representing very sound business practice.

As Get That Cooker On states earlier in this thread, alienating sections of your fanbase is a perilous route to adopt.





 

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