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+ www.altyfans.co.uk » General Category » Altrincham FC First Team
 Ramadan Project
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Author Topic: Ramadan Project  (Read 9797 times)

HashtagAlty

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Re: Ramadan Project
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2021, 12:58:52 PM »

I have no time for religion, if people want to believe something that's fine. What does concern me is the club should treat all faiths equally. Anybody put Jedi on the census form?

*SIGH* once again, for the people at the back...

Just because we're talking about ONE religion in this specific case (as it's Ramadan, no less) - doesn't mean we don't care as much about other religions. At no point has the club suggested otherwise, nor treated any faith differently.
.

That last statement isn’t exactly true though is it?  I don’t recall an Easter video explaining why Christian players or fans may have struggled with playing a match on Good Friday (if it weren’t for the tragic circumstances this year). We have treated the Muslim faith differently, not complaining just pointing out that equality is impossible to achieve. It’s impossible to please everyone though as we would have proved if our Muslim players had been here for the match in the rainbow kit. The no discrimination badges were one thing but we couldn’t or shouldn’t have asked those whose faith forbids homosexuality to play ina shirt that takes pride in it.

I believe that as it was a diversity day we had our good doctor friend present to show that attitudes in religions are equally modern.

The purpose of the video wasn't really about the faith of Ramadan, more exploring the nutrition and impact of fasting whilst continuing to perform at an elite level.

The comparison for Easter would be for a Catholic player avoiding meat the day of, day before a game.

« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 01:00:34 PM by HashtagAlty »
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Alty Bri

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Re: Ramadan Project
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2021, 02:30:15 PM »

The purpose of the video wasn't really about the faith of Ramadan, more exploring the nutrition and impact of fasting whilst continuing to perform at an elite level.

That was my take on the talk too. It was indeed the highlight of the stream.
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jiminlondon

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Re: Ramadan Project
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2021, 07:42:19 PM »

Absolutely!  As a Christian myself I thought a lot about how I would have reacted had I been in the playing squad for the rainbow kit match too. 

What you mean is ‘as a Christian who has certain beliefs’. Let’s just say that not all Christians, and indeed not all Muslims, hold such beliefs.
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Mick

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Re: Ramadan Project
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2021, 08:10:52 PM »

Watching Yoan trying to balance his phone on the steering wheel of his car whilst on a Teams Call - and failing several times - was probably more entertaining than the first half of the match. Certainly made me laugh.
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Sale Holmfield

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Re: Ramadan Project
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2021, 09:39:19 PM »

Which makes me wonder how he felt about being put in the position of having to chose between the position his faith takes and that publicly espoused by his employer.
Without wishing to be provocative, did you ever wonder how Christian players felt about playing on Good Friday? Wasn't there a Scottish (I think) player who had it in his contract that he wouldn't be called upon to play on a Sunday?
I don't know about the Scottish player (although I do remember the Welsh manager of Cefn Druids, of all clubs, who wouldn't manage on a Sunday), but Symon Burgher of Bromsgrove Rovers in the nineties wouldn't play on a Saturday as he was a Seventh Day Adventist, and so played at a lower level than his ability merited.

Back in the day, although Sunday football was banned, there were regular games on Christmas Day (unless it was a Sunday) and Good Friday, both  usually followed by a game the following day, so Christian players have not traditionally had a problem playing on those days.
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Bath Alty

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Re: Ramadan Project
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2021, 11:44:07 PM »

Absolutely!  As a Christian myself I thought a lot about how I would have reacted had I been in the playing squad for the rainbow kit match too. 

What you mean is ‘as a Christian who has certain beliefs’. Let’s just say that not all Christians, and indeed not all Muslims, hold such beliefs.

I don’t think this is the place for that debate but happy to carry on off line, for now let’s just settle on the position of the Church of England as a reasonable proxy for “Christian belief” which is, I believe in line with the view I expressed above
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Uncle Globnasty

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Re: Ramadan Project
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2021, 11:45:44 PM »

Absolutely!  As a Christian myself I thought a lot about how I would have reacted had I been in the playing squad for the rainbow kit match too. 

What you mean is ‘as a Christian who has certain beliefs’. Let’s just say that not all Christians, and indeed not all Muslims, hold such beliefs.

I was going to write exactly the same thing myself. I was brought up a Catholic, but am a confirmed atheist. There are many from many different religions who do not hold any truck with some of the teachings of their faith.

I would have thought love thy fellow man (whatever their colour, creed or sexuality) should be a basic tenet of any religion, but that, sadly, rarely appears to be the case.
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Uncle Globnasty

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Re: Ramadan Project
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2021, 11:50:32 PM »

Absolutely!  As a Christian myself I thought a lot about how I would have reacted had I been in the playing squad for the rainbow kit match too. 

What you mean is ‘as a Christian who has certain beliefs’. Let’s just say that not all Christians, and indeed not all Muslims, hold such beliefs.

I don’t think this is the place for that debate but happy to carry on off line, for now let’s just settle on the position of the Church of England as a reasonable proxy for “Christian belief” which is, I believe in line with the view I expressed above

And yet the Church of England has recognised and allowed same sex civil partnerships amongst the clergy since 2005 and there are many openly gay members of the clergy.
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Bath Alty

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Re: Ramadan Project
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2021, 11:56:36 PM »

I think to say you hold a particular faith “having some truck” with its teaching is a requirement, otherwise you are giving yourself a label that doesn’t actually apply to you. Picking and choosing bits of a faith means you have invented your own religion and if you want to do that then crack on but it seems somewhat illogical and arrogant to me to think you know better than the faith you profess to follow.

By the way on the implication of your second point holding the belief that homosexuality is a sin does not mean you cannot or do not love your fellow man (in the brotherly sense clearly) anymore than believing sex outside marriage is a sin means you cannot or do not love your cohabiting neighbours.  If we only loved the sinless we would’nt love anyone!
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Bath Alty

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Re: Ramadan Project
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2021, 11:58:29 PM »

The Church of England does not bless or carry out same sex marriages. As above they do not only allow the sinless to be vicars!
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Is this it?

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Re: Ramadan Project
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2021, 12:06:33 AM »

I have no time for religion, if people want to believe something that's fine. What does concern me is the club should treat all faiths equally. Anybody put Jedi on the census form?

*SIGH* once again, for the people at the back...

Just because we're talking about ONE religion in this specific case (as it's Ramadan, no less) - doesn't mean we don't care as much about other religions. At no point has the club suggested otherwise, nor treated any faith differently.

Yes.  Ridiculous that you should have to point this out.  I found it an interesting piece tbh.
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Is this it?

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Re: Ramadan Project
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2021, 12:13:46 AM »

Once religion is brought to the fore inevitably there are many potential issues..

Would a Methodist be forced to wear a Bet365 logo?

I am sure there was a lad who partially objected to playing in a Newcastle top with Wonga loans on it.

The club have stepped into an intensely personal area, and have set a very high standard to maintain. Good luck navigating through that without excluding people.

The point you make is valid, although as far as clubs promoting betting companies on there shirts, my own morals would guide me on the wrongness of that.
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Is this it?

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Re: Ramadan Project
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2021, 12:19:04 AM »

I have no time for religion, if people want to believe something that's fine. What does concern me is the club should treat all faiths equally. Anybody put Jedi on the census form?

*SIGH* once again, for the people at the back...

Just because we're talking about ONE religion in this specific case (as it's Ramadan, no less) - doesn't mean we don't care as much about other religions. At no point has the club suggested otherwise, nor treated any faith differently.
.

That last statement isn’t exactly true though is it?  I don’t recall an Easter video explaining why Christian players or fans may have struggled with playing a match on Good Friday (if it weren’t for the tragic circumstances this year). We have treated the Muslim faith differently, not complaining just pointing out that equality is impossible to achieve. It’s impossible to please everyone though as we would have proved if our Muslim players had been here for the match in the rainbow kit. The no discrimination badges were one thing but we couldn’t or shouldn’t have asked those whose faith forbids homosexuality to play ina shirt that takes pride in it.

I believe that as it was a diversity day we had our good doctor friend present to show that attitudes in religions are equally modern.

The purpose of the video wasn't really about the faith of Ramadan, more exploring the nutrition and impact of fasting whilst continuing to perform at an elite level.

The comparison for Easter would be for a Catholic player avoiding meat the day of, day before a game.

To be clear, Catholicism is not a religion, Christianity is.  If you are making a comparison, it should be done on an equal footing.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 12:21:40 AM by Mrs Trellis »
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MarpleAlty

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Re: Ramadan Project
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2021, 09:43:55 AM »

I have no time for religion, if people want to believe something that's fine. What does concern me is the club should treat all faiths equally. Anybody put Jedi on the census form?

*SIGH* once again, for the people at the back...

Just because we're talking about ONE religion in this specific case (as it's Ramadan, no less) - doesn't mean we don't care as much about other religions. At no point has the club suggested otherwise, nor treated any faith differently.
.

That last statement isn’t exactly true though is it?  I don’t recall an Easter video explaining why Christian players or fans may have struggled with playing a match on Good Friday (if it weren’t for the tragic circumstances this year). We have treated the Muslim faith differently, not complaining just pointing out that equality is impossible to achieve. It’s impossible to please everyone though as we would have proved if our Muslim players had been here for the match in the rainbow kit. The no discrimination badges were one thing but we couldn’t or shouldn’t have asked those whose faith forbids homosexuality to play ina shirt that takes pride in it.

You're just making yourself look silly here - the books of both Christianity and Islam supposedly have 'form' in this regard, however you have chosen to isolate one and not the other for some reason.

As the majority of us know less about Islam than Christianity, I found the piece interesting, and took it as such. The local area has a strong Muslim community - should we not be encouraging them through the turnstiles?
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CRT Butty

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Re: Ramadan Project
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2021, 10:53:25 AM »

Got to hope we don't sign a Scientologist, that is one bat loopy fruit banjo set of religious beliefs.
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 Ramadan Project